# Trump calls Pakistan, Taiwan and other world leaders to chat **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693 "2016-12-03T01:27:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/61 "2016-12-03T23:36:46Z")
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and state that China has already factored in Trumps boorish behaviour and has decided to play the long game and just wait it out for the next four years. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/62 "2016-12-03T23:38:27Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Choosing to blame the Taiwanese demonstrates a desire to avoid characterizing the incident as a conflict with the US. It’s essentially a gesture of respect. , ??? For respect, read condescension. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/63 "2016-12-03T23:55:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Choosing to blame the Taiwanese demonstrates a desire to avoid characterizing the incident as a conflict with the US. It’s essentially a gesture of respect. , > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m gonna go out on a limb here and state that China has already factored in Trumps boorish behaviour and has decided to play the long game and just wait it out for the next four years. I tend to agree. If Trump gets Congress to slap some heavy tariffs on Chinese goods, that will piss them off. As it should. A diplomatic faux pas is more of something to snicker at. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/64 "2016-12-03T23:56:12Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > The whole time Trump was running for President, those who supported him and those who opposed him all knew that when it came to foreign policy Trump didn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. And it looks like he is determined to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/65 "2016-12-04T02:00:23Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m gonna go out on a limb here and state that China has already factored in Trumps boorish behaviour and has decided to play the long game and just wait it out for the next four years. Or they’re making plans for how they’re going to manipulate Trump. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/66 "2016-12-04T02:41:24Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Cool, now why don’t you make a list of countries that recognize Taiwan’s independence? Same list ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/67 "2016-12-04T02:49:27Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m gonna go out on a limb here and state that China has already factored in Trumps boorish behaviour and has decided to play the long game and just wait it out for the next four years. bwahahahaha.China is going to exploit and play the Trumpster for all they can to maximize their advantage and the US disadvantage. No way are they passing up this golden opportunity to take advantage of a total political and authoritarian noob. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/68 "2016-12-04T03:26:59Z")
Whenever the issue of China vs. Taiwan, or China’s claim to the South China Sea, or China’s human-rights record, or the Dalai Lama or Falun Gong or other such behavior comes up, there will always inevitably be some Western observers who will say, _“China has [huge military][nuclear weapons][is America’s largest trading partner][holds $1.3 trillion of US debt][insert military/economic/political power], therefore they should not be confronted and their demands should be acceded to.”_ It is, at its core, a might-makes-right argument. What’s more interesting is that many of these folks are the same people who argue forcefully against the 1%, or the elites, or Fortune 500 corporations, Wall Street, or the privileged, etc. in society- they argue for the little guy against the Big Guy. But somehow when it comes to international politics, they go by an entirely opposite set of rules. Suddenly power. wealth, and the ability to inflict coercion means that a country like China is to be respected and _deferred to._ They support the Big Guy against the little guy. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/69 "2016-12-04T03:41:26Z")
Perhaps the US _should_ change its policy with regard to Taiwan. But that doesn’t mean it should occur just because the president-elect didn’t know the current situation. Surely such a change in policy should be discussed, debated and decided upon? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/70 "2016-12-04T04:35:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Whenever the issue of China vs. Taiwan, or China’s claim to the South China Sea, or China’s human-rights record, or the Dalai Lama or Falun Gong or other such behavior comes up, there will always inevitably be some Western observers who will say, _“China has [huge military][nuclear weapons][is America’s largest trading partner][holds $1.3 trillion of US debt][insert military/economic/political power], therefore they should not be confronted and their demands should be acceded to.”_ > > It is, at its core, a might-makes-right argument. > > What’s more interesting is that many of these folks are the same people who argue forcefully against the 1%, or the elites, or Fortune 500 corporations, Wall Street, or the privileged, etc. in society- they argue for the little guy against the Big Guy. But somehow when it comes to international politics, they go by an entirely opposite set of rules. Suddenly power. wealth, and the ability to inflict coercion means that a country like China is to be respected and _deferred to._ They support the Big Guy against the little guy. Might doesn’t make right. But you’re an idiot if you ignore might when it exists. This is one reason I worry about Trump as President. I don’t feel he’s aware he’s operating at a much higher level than he ever has before. China isn’t a corporation; it’s a global superpower. Trump doesn’t seem aware that the stakes are now thousands of times higher than anything he’s done in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/71 "2016-12-04T05:11:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Whenever the issue of China vs. Taiwan, or China’s claim to the South China Sea, or China’s human-rights record, or the Dalai Lama or Falun Gong or other such behavior comes up, there will always inevitably be some Western observers who will say, _“China has [huge military][nuclear weapons][is America’s largest trading partner][holds $1.3 trillion of US debt][insert military/economic/political power], therefore they should not be confronted and their demands should be acceded to.”_ > > It is, at its core, a might-makes-right argument. Minor nitpick: Canada is the U.S.'s largest trading partner, though China is #2 and may take first position fairly soon. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/72 "2016-12-04T05:31:58Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Perhaps the US _should_ change its policy with regard to Taiwan. But that doesn’t mean it should occur just because the president-elect didn’t know the current situation. Surely such a change in policy should be discussed, debated and decided upon? Now those wise suggestions would not sit well with the new administration. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/73 "2016-12-04T05:51:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Perhaps the US _should_ change its policy with regard to Taiwan. But that doesn’t mean it should occur just because the president-elect didn’t know the current situation. Surely such a change in policy should be discussed, debated and decided upon? Am I the only one who thinks Trump may have thought he was getting a call from the President of the People’s Republic of China instead of the President of the Republic of China? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/74 "2016-12-04T06:19:36Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks Trump may have thought he was getting a call from the President of the People’s Republic of China instead of the President of the Republic of China? That’s very plausible. I doubt if he knows the difference. He **still** may not know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/75 "2016-12-04T06:41:14Z")
Is there any chance we can get Trump on a round of _Celebrity Jeopardy!_ before he takes office, just so we have some idea of his understanding of geography, history and science? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/76 "2016-12-04T07:20:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is there any chance we can get Trump on a round of _Celebrity Jeopardy!_ before he takes office, just so we have some idea of his understanding of geography, history and science? I’m not to keen on jumping on the Trump-bash for lulz bandwagon, but to be frank, I doubt that many of us have any particular question on how well he would do. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/77 "2016-12-04T07:27:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m not to keen on jumping on the Trump-bash for lulz bandwagon, but to be frank, I doubt that many of us have any particular question on how well he would do. I’m personally holding out the minor hope his administration will be a pleasant surprise. He’s set my expectations rather low. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/78 "2016-12-04T07:39:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m personally holding out the minor hope his administration will be a pleasant surprise. > He’s set my expectations rather low. I don’t think that you need to be a whiz at geography, etc. to be a decent President. Functionally, people are pretty similar across the planet and the President is going to have a lot of experts to talk to about every country he is going to deal with (if he so chooses). So while I would agree that Trump would probably not score that well, it probably doesn’t matter. Realistically, it’s not like the Presidents who are highly knowledgeable about everything global, are all that knowledgeable about everything global. Hillary could probably run off the names of some of the leadership in Japan and maybe give a bit of history of the country. But as someone who lived there for 7 years, I’d laugh at almost everything she had to say about how things work in Japan. Fundamentally, unless you’ve lived somewhere for a few years, you’re really going to be pretty close to 0 on the “real understanding” scale, and almost no politician has that for any country outside the US, let alone a majority of the countries which are strategically/economically relevant to us. Actually, to Trump’s credit, he probably has tried to open some businesses internationally, and that will have required some amount of research into the local culture. And if there is one thing that Trump excels in, it’s understanding the base, black roots of humanity - which are pretty global - so it’s possible that he will do well just on that basis. Fundamentally, global politics is schoolyard rules, and that’s really his strong spot. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/79 "2016-12-04T10:14:39Z")
> [@greenmario](#): > > If Trump were interested in expanding his business he would not piss of China for the sake of Taiwan. The two are lightyears apart in terms of potential value. But Taiwan is where Trump DOES have hotel projects; China is where he does NOT. (Trump also has major projects in Phillipines.) In your model of reality, if Trump were interested in his business he would have snubbed the country where he IS doing business in favor of the country where ISN’T; do I have that right? > [@Velocity](#): > > There is no such promise. The 1979 Taiwan Relations Act is not a defense pact and there is no US commitment to defend Taiwan in the event of attack. How do you know there’s no secret promise? Did you learn this at a Daily Intelligence Briefing? (Obviously any such agreement would be secret as everyone familiar with the peculiar China-Taiwan-U.S.A. triangle knows.) I suppose in _your_ model of reality, the agreement would be published in _USA Today_ but still kept secret from the P.R. of China, is that it? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693/80 "2016-12-04T11:46:57Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It is, at its core, a might-makes-right argument. > … > Suddenly power. wealth, and the ability to inflict coercion means that a country like China is to be respected and deferred to. They support the Big Guy against the little guy. There was I thinking precisely that approach has been the centre-piece of US foreign policy since WII and indeed the whole premise of Trumps MAGA campaign. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-calls-pakistan-taiwan-and-other-world-leaders-to-chat/773693.md?page=5)