# Trump caved. Now what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463 "2019-01-26T20:44:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/61 "2019-01-28T16:25:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > All of those saying that this will be the time the Republicans stand up to Trump if he tries to shut down the government again or use Emergency Powers? > The “Born Yesterday” queue is right over there. As a group? No. Enough of them? Quite possibly. Here’s the deal: if Trump declares an emergency, it can be terminated by a joint resolution of Congress ([50 USC 1622](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2009-title50/html/USCODE-2009-title50-chap34.htm)(a)). If one House votes to terminate the emergency, the other House has to vote on it within 18 days (50 USC 1622(c)(3)). The House of Representatives would almost certainly vote quickly to terminate the emergency. Given how things went in the Senate on the shutdown vote, what’s the likelihood that a vote on a bullshit state of emergency would fare much better there? And since there’s no filibuster of this one, 51 votes suffices to pass it. It would surely get more votes than that. The strength of the GOP majority lately has rested on Mitch’s ability to keep his caucus from having to vote on anything remotely controversial. But this one’s going to give heartburn to a number of Senators. The question is (a) would there be a veto, and (b) would there be enough votes to override? My thought is (a) hard to tell - Trump really doesn’t like standing up to people he can’t simply stomp on, and (b) no. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/62 "2019-01-28T16:40:43Z")
What Trump wants, right now, is his SOTU speech. He thinks that if he could just stand up in Pelosi’s House and say whatever he wants, he could totally pwn the Dems, get his Wall and make everyone forget about the unimportant blip that was the government shutdown. Pelosi, on the other hand, knows perfectly well that the longer she can put off the speech, the more leverage she has in forestalling the next shutdown and the more Trump will look like a loser. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/63 "2019-01-28T17:03:33Z")
Okay, thread title needs to be changed ASAP. Thump did NOT cave. He called the Dems’ bluff and once again emerged the WINNER! _\_ Nancy Pelosi is a big ol’ meanie and she probably wears army boots, too! Seems like all the thumpniks have gotten on board with Denial of Reality. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/64 "2019-01-28T17:17:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m a big fan of br’er patches. > > Whatever you do, President Trump, just don’t go on strike! I don’t want you to have that wall! If you went on strike, why I’d just be forced to give you that wall! “And don’t threaten to resign! We couldn’t bear it if you threatened to resign!” ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/65 "2019-01-28T17:26:56Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The question is (a) would there be a veto, and (b) would there be enough votes to override? My thought is (a) hard to tell - Trump really doesn’t like standing up to people he can’t simply stomp on, and (b) no. It’s a joint resolution, so no veto. Now, my quick read didn’t show that Trump couldn’t immediately declare another emergency, but presumably the same dance would ensue if he did (except hopefully quicker, assume the Senate stalls the first time). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/66 "2019-01-28T17:31:39Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > It’s a joint resolution, so no veto. Joint resolutions are in fact presented to the President for signature or veto, and have the force of law. Concurrent resolutions are not sent to the White House, and do not have force of law. There most certainly is an opportunity for a veto, and I believe Trump would do so. Not a doubt in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/67 "2019-01-28T17:32:43Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > It’s a joint resolution, so no veto. I was wondering about that myself, so I [looked it up](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_resolution). > [@](#): > > Generally, there is no legal difference between a joint resolution and a bill. Both must be passed, in exactly the same form, by both chambers of Congress, and signed by the President (or, re-passed in override of a presidential veto; or, remain unsigned for ten days while Congress is in session) to become a law. Constitutional amendments are joint resolutions and don’t go to the President, but they’re the only exceptions. ETA: Ninja’d by **Ravenman**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/68 "2019-01-28T18:30:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … > Here’s the deal: if Trump declares an emergency, it can be terminated by a joint resolution of Congress ([50 USC 1622](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2009-title50/html/USCODE-2009-title50-chap34.htm)(a)). If one House votes to terminate the emergency, the other House has to vote on it within 18 days (50 USC 1622(c)(3)). > … One potential silver lining would be if this prompted Congress to actually conduct their mandated oversight of “emergencies.” Sure seems odd to me, how frequently I heard Rs complain about Obama “legislating from the Oval.” But seem not to object to their guy doing it… I agree that such executive actions generally reflect a Congressional abdication of responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/69 "2019-01-28T20:02:04Z")
> [@](#): > > “This decision to reopen government for three weeks basically says to the Democrats, ‘OK, now put up or shut up,’” the Utah Republican said. Translation: the Republicans consider a functional government purely optional. They think using the nation’s health and safety as a bargaining chip is ethical and logical. And they expect the American public to just go along with this. If the Dems refuse to “put up”, then what? Are they going to start holding knives to people’s necks? ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/70 "2019-01-28T23:59:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > “And don’t threaten to resign! We couldn’t bear it if you threatened to resign!” My amnesia is kicking in again. Can the US Politics experts on-board tell me again why Pence was considered the greater of the two evils? –G! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/71 "2019-01-29T01:07:03Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > My amnesia is kicking in again. > Can the US Politics experts on-board tell me again why Pence was considered the greater of the two evils? > > –G! Because he’s not a slobbering idiot. Thump’s stupidity and narcissism trip him up. With Pence at the wheel and McConnell at the rudder, things could get really bad in a more organized way. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/72 "2019-01-29T01:17:28Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Because he’s not a slobbering idiot. Thump’s stupidity and narcissism trip him up. With Pence at the wheel and McConnell at the rudder, things could get really bad in a more organized way. True, but Pence doesnt really inspire a large base of devotees. Although stranger things have happened, I can’t see Pence winning a national election. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/73 "2019-01-29T02:00:33Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > True, but Pence doesnt really inspire a large base of devotees. Although stranger things have happened, I can’t see Pence winning a national election. I agree. He is the original nothingberder. The problem would be if he achieved the presidency because thump left or was removed from office. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/74 "2019-01-29T02:07:14Z")
I’ve seen various commentators saying that Trump doesn’t have much grounds anymore for declaring an emergency. If it’s an emergency, why is he waiting around? Not to mention he’s explicitly said he’ll declare an emergency if Congress doesn’t vote him the money - seems a pretty clear usurpation of Congress’ power and responsibility to appropriate and allocate funds. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/75 "2019-01-29T03:09:52Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > With Trump’s (temporary) capitulation, the shutdown is now (temporarily) over. What lies ahead? If Trump can’t get funding for the wall within the next three weeks, will there be a Shutdown II? Would he have GOP support this time? What are the long-term implications of Trump’s concession? Will Trump rebound from this loss and run again in 2020? That last question may seem extreme, given that this is, after all, only one issue and that the election is almost 22 months away, but consider [this](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/01/03/lindsey-graham-trump-shutdown-fight/2470780002/) from earlier this month: > > And [this](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/26/politics/white-house-aides-despondent/index.html) from earlier today: > > And if he does run again, how will this setback affect Trump’s odds of winning? I doubt a second shutdown. I don’t have much doubt that Trump will accomplish his goal. Hail Marys toward the end term or down right ,hell with it I’ll do whatever I want attitudes near the end of second terms are all too common. So is a learning curve with navigating Washington. I’m fairly sure he’ll run again. Whether he wins again or not just depends on whether Dems can come up with a strong candidate that isn’t practically a radical or largely depending on being a woman or minority. I think at least Obama’s first win was largely out of people saying all right, it’s about time for a black president. I think Hillary was a poor choice and would not have been considered the strongest candidate had she been a man. On the other hand , while I liked some of Bernie’s ideas , in reality he was too radical to ever be a strong candidate. Beating an incumbent will be even more difficult, almost always is, I mean after all “w” of all people managed a second term… seriously, got to be the most ridiculous president we’ve ever had. Trump’s ridiculous but largely because he’s just plain brash. W was like a mentally defecient monkey puppet. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/76 "2019-01-29T03:13:27Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Translation: the Republicans consider a functional government purely optional. They think using the nation’s health and safety as a bargaining chip is ethical and logical. And they expect the American public to just go along with this. > > If the Dems refuse to “put up”, then what? Are they going to start holding knives to people’s necks? Hmm, as a government worker in 2013 I’d replace that Republicans with politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/77 "2019-01-29T03:23:43Z")
Hell I don’t think that shutdown nor the next threatened shutdown were even mentioned by the next election. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/78 "2019-01-29T08:58:43Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Hell I don’t think that shutdown nor the next threatened shutdown were even mentioned by the next election. True - by then we’ll probably be at war with Eastasia. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/79 "2019-01-29T10:56:39Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > I’ve seen various commentators saying that Trump doesn’t have much grounds anymore for declaring an emergency. If it’s an emergency, why is he waiting around? > Not to mention he’s explicitly said he’ll declare an emergency if Congress doesn’t vote him the money - seems a pretty clear usurpation of Congress’ power and responsibility to appropriate and allocate funds. If Trump sends troops to Venezuela, he could declare that there is an emergency on the Southern border and he needs to build the wall to prevent invading Venezuelans. Just a pre-coffee thought. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/80 "2019-01-29T11:38:38Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Hmm, as a government worker in 2013 I’d replace that Republicans with politicians. In 2013 it wasnt just politicians.[It was Republicans then too.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/10/03/why-did-the-u-s-government-shut-down-in-october-2013/#c4344b7d9d4b) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463.md?page=5)