# Trump caved. Now what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463 "2019-01-26T20:44:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/81 "2019-01-29T17:07:08Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Beating an incumbent will be even more difficult, almost always is, I mean after all “w” of all people managed a second term… seriously, got to be the most ridiculous president we’ve ever had. > > Trump’s ridiculous but largely because he’s just plain brash. > > W was like a mentally defecient monkey puppet. Wow, I think this is the first time I’ve ever heard it either said or implied that Trump is smarter than W. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/82 "2019-01-29T17:10:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > True - by then we’ll probably be at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/83 "2019-01-29T19:51:32Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > I think at least Obama’s first win was largely out of people saying all right, it’s about time for a black president. I thought about letting this slide since it’s off-topic, but I decided it should be called out because it dismisses all the actual reasons Obama won the election and credits the victory to an inexplicably sudden, overwhelming tide of support for electing a president merely because he was black. One could as easily argue, and with as little data, that Obama didn’t win by an even wider margin _because_ he was black, implying that the majority of McCain voters voted for McCain not because of his stand on the issues but because he was white. Ridiculous, isn’t it? The reality is the top two concerns among Americans in 2008 were the economy and the crippling costs of health care. [Pew poll](http://www.pewresearch.org/2008/11/05/inside-obamas-sweeping-victory/): > [@](#): > > Among those who said they are very worried about economic conditions — half the electorate — 59% voted for Obama; those who expressed less concern about the economy favored McCain. One-in-three voters said they are very worried about being able to afford the health care services they need, and these voters backed Obama by a 65%-to-32% margin. To suggest that voters cared more about Obama’s ethnicity than they did about these urgent issues is to denigrate voters and deny reality. Now back to the OP… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/84 "2019-01-29T20:14:06Z")
Well, [it looks like he is going the “National Emergency Powers” route.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/24/politics/trump-border-wall-emergency-draft/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2019-01-24T22%3A13%3A52&utm_source=fbCNNp&utm_term=link) My prediction is that the Republicans will sit and spin, while waiting for others to stop him through lawsuits and such. What a bunch of gutless wonders. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/85 "2019-01-29T20:19:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, [it looks like he is going the “National Emergency Powers” route.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/24/politics/trump-border-wall-emergency-draft/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2019-01-24T22%3A13%3A52&utm_source=fbCNNp&utm_term=link) My prediction is that the Republicans will sit and spin, while waiting for others to stop him through lawsuits and such. What a bunch of gutless wonders. It’s a good solution for him. It won’t get the wall built, but he doesn’t actually care about a wall getting built. It will allow him to claim that he tried to get the wall built. I’ve heard some Republicans publicly attack the idea in recent days, (Rubio actually said he’d “fight” Trump about this) So, it may get interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/86 "2019-01-29T20:25:11Z")
They will all cave when push comes to shove-they have done nothing but for the last two years, and I see nothing that says it will finally be different this time. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/87 "2019-01-29T22:33:27Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I thought about letting this slide since it’s off-topic, but I decided it should be called out because it dismisses all the actual reasons Obama won the election and credits the victory to an inexplicably sudden, overwhelming tide of support for electing a president merely because he was black. One could as easily argue, and with as little data, that Obama didn’t win by an even wider margin _because_ he was black, implying that the majority of McCain voters voted for McCain not because of his stand on the issues but because he was white. Ridiculous, isn’t it? > > The reality is the top two concerns among Americans in 2008 were the economy and the crippling costs of health care. [Pew poll](http://www.pewresearch.org/2008/11/05/inside-obamas-sweeping-victory/): > > To suggest that voters cared more about Obama’s ethnicity than they did about these urgent issues is to denigrate voters and deny reality. > > Now back to the OP… Yeah, you could argue either way , I just personally know a lot of people who weren’t really convinced either way and went with Obama because he was black. Obviously you couldn’t just throw in any black politician and pray for the best. There had to merits for him to get close. I wouldn’t put it past a lot of McCain voters to have voted McCain because he was white and the other candidate was black. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/88 "2019-01-29T22:35:46Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Wow, I think this is the first time I’ve ever heard it either said or implied that Trump is smarter than W. Lol, well, it’s a close call. I just can’t get the image of W out of my head just looking bewildered at everything and going uh uh uhm, looking around like someone would give him the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/89 "2019-01-29T22:38:53Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Trump’s ridiculous but largely because he’s just plain brash. “Brash” is the least of his sins. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/90 "2019-01-30T07:56:05Z")
A sign the tide is turning: [one in three Republicans want someone other than Trump](http://https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/29/politics/donald-trump-republican-primary/index.html) on the ballot. One in three. And I think that number will grow when the mueller report drops. Who would you pick to run against him n the GOP primaries/caucuses? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/91 "2019-01-30T11:38:17Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Rubio actually said he’d “fight” Trump about this. Rubio ain’t “fighting” nobody. He is utterly without backbone, and even in the unlikely chance he spoke up about this nobody would pay him any attention. > [@Littleman](#): > > Yeah, you could argue either way , I just personally know a lot of people who weren’t really convinced either way and went with Obama because he was black. > Obviously you couldn’t just throw in any black politician and pray for the best. > There had to merits for him to get close. > > I wouldn’t put it past a lot of McCain voters to have voted McCain because he was white and the other candidate was black. Yes, you could “argue either way” - you could choose the way that involves actual statistical data based on polling a significant number of potential voters, or you could use the “I know a lot of people” and “I wouldn’t put it past a lot of them” method. They’re both equally valid approaches. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/92 "2019-01-30T16:20:33Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > A sign the tide is turning: [one in three Republicans want someone other than Trump](http://https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/29/politics/donald-trump-republican-primary/index.html) on the ballot. > > One in three. And I think that number will grow when the mueller report drops. > > Who would you pick to run against him n the GOP primaries/caucuses? JEB! Kidding aside, the last two years of Orange Julius Caesar have almost managed to restore the Bush brand. In any case, it would be worth it to watch the GOP _eat_ itself, like a guy stranding on a barren islet in the middle of the ocean, contemplating having his own foot for dinner. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/93 "2019-01-30T16:27:49Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > JEB! > > Kidding aside, the last two years of Orange Julius Caesar have almost managed to restore the Bush brand. In any case, it would be worth it to watch the GOP _eat_ itself, like a guy stranding on a barren islet in the middle of the ocean, contemplating having his own foot for dinner. 🆒 Thanks for a great laugh-out-loud (even if it did scare my dog). 😃 I have to drag out this one again: a former BF, retired Air Force pilot, used to talk about the guy who ran around in ever-decreasing concentric circles until he disappeared up his own asshole. I fondly wish this fate on the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/94 "2019-01-30T16:51:57Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Who would you pick to run against him n the GOP primaries/caucuses? What’s Evan McMullin up to these days? I disagree with pretty much all of his policy positions but he at least seems to have his head screwed on properly and he’s a rabid anti-Trumper. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/95 "2019-01-30T17:02:51Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Who would you pick to run against him n the GOP primaries/caucuses? [MD Gov. Larry Hogan has scheduled travel to Iowa and NH.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/gov-larry-hogan-heres-what-you-need-to-know-as-he-weighs-a-white-house-run/2019/01/29/d9f16a00-23e8-11e9-ad53-824486280311_story.html?utm_term=.77a5a7eec9b3) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/96 "2019-01-30T17:16:54Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [MD Gov. Larry Hogan has scheduled travel to Iowa and NH.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/gov-larry-hogan-heres-what-you-need-to-know-as-he-weighs-a-white-house-run/2019/01/29/d9f16a00-23e8-11e9-ad53-824486280311_story.html?utm_term=.77a5a7eec9b3) Hope he runs, we could yell _“Ho-GAN!”_ like Colonel Klink did. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/97 "2019-01-30T19:06:11Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > Can the US Politics experts on-board tell me again why Pence was considered the greater of the two evils? You quoted me so I’ll assume you want a response. Mine’s easy; I never said that. I’ve said all along that while I think Pence would be a bad President, I don’t think he’s as bad as Trump. So I’d rather see Pence as President than Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/98 "2019-01-30T19:18:24Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Kidding aside, the last two years of Orange Julius Caesar have almost managed to restore the Bush brand. Not for me. I still believe George W. Bush was a terrible President, even if I don’t think he was as bad as Trump is. And I didn’t succumb to nostalgia when Bush senior died; I don’t think he was a particularly good President either. If anything, Trump’s presidency has diminished what respect I had for the Bushes. I feel that decisions they made while President lead to Trump and I hold them responsible for that. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/99 "2019-01-30T19:45:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Not for me. I still believe George W. Bush was a terrible President, even if I don’t think he was as bad as Trump is. And I didn’t succumb to nostalgia when Bush senior died; I don’t think he was a particularly good President either. > > If anything, Trump’s presidency has diminished what respect I had for the Bushes. I feel that decisions they made while President lead to Trump and I hold them responsible for that. While Trump does cast the Bushes in a positive light for their character, if you measure a presidency by its impact on the nation, W’s was a \*worse \*presidency than Trump’s. Let’s not forget how W’s administration, under utterly false pretenses, led us into a completely unnecessary war that (besides killing hundreds of thousands) destabilized a region with wide-ranging impacts from which we’re still suffering. They also presided over the worst financial collapse in most people’s memory. While it wasn’t the administration’s direct fault, they arguably helped create the atmosphere that caused the collapse and clearly did nothing to prevent it or reduce its devastation. True, Trump has only had two years, and he and his ilk have destroyed the norms of public discourse and behavior that served us pretty well since WWII. There’s also no telling how deep or long-lasting the damage from his many actions (and inactions) will be, and he could very well start a nuclear war any given Thursday. But let’s never let his awfulness minimize the trainwreck of the W years. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463/100 "2019-01-30T23:20:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Not for me. I still believe George W. Bush was a terrible President, even if I don’t think he was as bad as Trump is. And I didn’t succumb to nostalgia when Bush senior died; I don’t think he was a particularly good President either. > > If anything, Trump’s presidency has diminished what respect I had for the Bushes. I feel that decisions they made while President lead to Trump and I hold them responsible for that. > [@Akaj](#): > > While Trump does cast the Bushes in a positive light for their character, if you measure a presidency by its impact on the nation, W’s was a \*worse \*presidency than Trump’s. > > Let’s not forget how W’s administration, under utterly false pretenses, led us into a completely unnecessary war that (besides killing hundreds of thousands) destabilized a region with wide-ranging impacts from which we’re still suffering. They also presided over the worst financial collapse in most people’s memory. While it wasn’t the administration’s direct fault, they arguably helped create the atmosphere that caused the collapse and clearly did nothing to prevent it or reduce its devastation. > > True, Trump has only had two years, and he and his ilk have destroyed the norms of public discourse and behavior that served us pretty well since WWII. There’s also no telling how deep or long-lasting the damage from his many actions (and inactions) will be, and he could very well start a nuclear war any given Thursday. But let’s never let his awfulness minimize the trainwreck of the W years. Yeah…I _did_ say “almost”… :o [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-caved-now-what/828463.md?page=6)