# Trump-Clinton Conspiracy?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 9, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932 "2015-12-09T12:06:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/21 "2015-12-10T21:37:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Those descriptions are not contradictory. But while he has always been an egomaniac, he hasn’t often been this crazy. If he is serious about this, his high end brand is going to be trashed. Has he ever been that uninterested in making money? He could sell the the white trash just fine, but that is not where his brand is. He’s 69. He could be starting down the road of age-related mental deterioration, like increased dementia and lowered inhibitions. There are some cancers that mimic those symptoms, too. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/22 "2015-12-10T22:38:36Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I heard of this a week or so ago. > Who came up with the idea? > > Could Bill Clinton have begun this rumor to discredit Trump? Is he that sneaky? 🙂 Why would he? What benefit does discrediting Trump at this point confer on Clinton, his wife, or the Democrats as a whole? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/23 "2015-12-10T22:40:43Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > He’s 69. He could be starting down the road of age-related mental deterioration, like increased dementia and lowered inhibitions. There are some cancers that mimic those symptoms, too. 69 isn’t that old! (I’m 64. ) But not dementia - maybe an example of Republican old age paranoia syndrome, which makes old Republicans want guns because those people will break down the door and rape their dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/24 "2015-12-10T22:42:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If true, this would be one of the biggest conspiracies to have ever happened in American politics. While juicy, I cannot imagine that everything fell into place. Its just too crazy to think of But look at the trouble the Republicans gave Clinton. Think of the joy he’d get from wiping out the lunatic wing of that party. It ain’t true, but I wish it was. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/25 "2015-12-10T23:31:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Voyager** : > > Those descriptions are not contradictory. But while he has always been an egomaniac, he hasn’t often been this crazy. If he is serious about this, his high end brand is going to be trashed. Has he ever been that uninterested in making money? He could sell the the white trash just fine, but that is not where his brand is. Trump has a high-end brand? What is it, and is it anywhere near as lucrative as his reality TV brand? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/26 "2015-12-10T23:45:11Z")
When the Clintons do stuff Republicans think is stupid, it’s the Clintons’ fault (obviously). When some Republicans do stuff other Republicans think is stupid, it’s the Clintons’ fault (obviously). ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/27 "2015-12-11T04:37:39Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Why would he? What benefit does discrediting Trump at this point confer on Clinton, his wife, or the Democrats as a whole? This. > [@Voyager](#): > > Those descriptions are not contradictory. But while he has always been an egomaniac, he hasn’t often been this crazy. If he is serious about this, his high end brand is going to be trashed. Has he ever been that uninterested in making money? He could sell the the white trash just fine, but that is not where his brand is. 😕 I genuinely don’t understand this comment at all. First, why is it that you don’t think his high end brand has already been trashed? And then, what is it you are referencing in terms of “being serious about this” which would trash that brand if it has not already been trashed? ---
**Author:** ![Cognoscant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Cognoscant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cognoscant)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/28 "2015-12-11T12:20:02Z")
I’m sure that “mysterious phone conversation” happened, but I have to figure it went down like this: I’m sure you all know some big talker who, when they meet some expert in the field, start blagging about how they’re just as good or even better and the only reason they’re not famous is that they lost interest or outside forces are keeping them down or whatever. Say said windbag meets a world-famous golfer; the windbag starts talking about how he’s discovered “the secret to golf” and why he’s on the verge of becoming a scratch golfer himself and that he knows he’s going to make a meteoric rise into the Tour just as soon as he gets a few days off to practice. And the Tour pro, if he’s feeling magnanimous, will say, yeah, good luck with that, and walk away knowing he’s just talked to some idiot. Trump is that big talker, but unlike most big talkers, he’s got the time and money to play at doing big-time things. And so he was probably talking to Bill Clinton about something else, the conversation turned to politics, and Trump being Trump the Donald said, “Hey, you know I ran for President before, I’m sure if took it seriously this time I would win.” And Bill, being the politician he is, said, “Oh you’re absolutely right Donald, you’d have every chance of winning.” So Trump walked away from that thinking “Bill thinks I can win this. Of course I can win, I’m Donald Trump!” Honestly there’s probably nothing more to it. I doubt Clinton gave him any more than a little nudge to do what he was already planning to do. But I also think Bill’s laughing his ass off at what’s going on now. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/29 "2015-12-11T14:40:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Trump has a high-end brand? “High-end” in the sense of “expensive,” yes - all his property development stuff. High-rise condominium towers and golf resorts and what not. Tasteful, no. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/30 "2015-12-11T14:58:43Z")
If they did, it’s a pretty inefficient plan. The Republicans have had a long history of joke candidates briefly gaining a moment in the spotlight before burning out brightly and becoming quickly forgotten. Even now, nobody really knows if we’ll still be talking about Trump in March after Iowa and NH. Certainly, at the time he declared his candidacy, pretty much everyone was expecting him to rapidly flame out within the month. Our ability to understand the changing electorate this time around and how Trump’s campaign is different has only come from seeing Trump’s actions and the response. Pre Trump declaring, it would have taken an immense amount of foresight and confidence to reach those same conclusions. In short, if the Clintons were capable of this level of political triangulation, why aren’t they applying it to their own damn campaign? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/31 "2015-12-11T16:48:15Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Why would he? What benefit does discrediting Trump at this point confer on Clinton, his wife, or the Democrats as a whole? Just to play conspiracy theorist: Trump is unique in the GOP horserace in that he’s apparently willing to run as an independent. That’s irrelevant if he’s the GOP candidate; the anti-Hillary vote unifies behind him, and he trains all his fire on her. But if he goes 3rd-party, Trump and the GOP would _split_ the anti-Hillary vote – with Trump presumably taking fewer shots at Hillary, because he’d presumably spend a healthy chunk of his time going after the GOP candidate. Now, he’d have to get on the ballot in a lot of places – so the sooner you can get him started on a 3rd-party run, the _better,_ right? So why the heck _not_ do it now? What do you gain by waiting? If you can up the odds of him jumping ship, why delay another day? Going after Cruz or Carson gets you none of that; going after Trump maybe gets you everything. (And if he loses graciously instead of going 3rd-party – meh, no harm done.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/32 "2015-12-11T19:18:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > This. > > 😕 I genuinely don’t understand this comment at all. First, why is it that you don’t think his high end brand has already been trashed? And then, what is it you are referencing in terms of “being serious about this” which would trash that brand if it has not already been trashed? Serious in the sense that he isn’t going to announce it was all a joke. If he does, his trailer-trash supporters won’t buy his stuff (not that they ever would) and the people with the money to buy his stuff would keep on doing so. There was an article in the Times yesterday about the Trump brand in the Arab world. That was supposed to be a major area of growth for them. One store has pulled his stuff. People are stuck in his buildings. I don’t think they paid a lot of attention to what he said about Mexicans, but Muslims are a different story. Not that much impact yet, but we’ll see. So his brand wasn’t trashed there - until now. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/33 "2015-12-11T19:48:20Z")
I can’t see how announcing now “Heh, I was just joking” would “un-trash” his brand. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/34 "2015-12-11T20:37:45Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I believe Trump is not all that despised a political entity as the GOP and the media are exhibiting. > > I think the GOP is already resigned to the loss of the presidency this cycle and some in the party are actually happy Trump is doing as well as he is because if he becomes the nominee and then loses to Hillary, Republicans can trot out the old horse about the wrong candidate who is not a real conservative anyway took the nomination so of course he lost, which allows the conservative wing of the party, which is now the party and no longer a wing, to save face while at the same time doubling down on ‘radical conservatism’ (now ‘conservatism’) and delaying any return to sanity by at least a decade. > > Republicans (and the country) need someone like Cruz to win the nomination and then lose in the general election. Only when a true Conservative loses will the party come to its senses. But how would Trump not count as a “real conservative”? He’s not exactly saying moderate positions in his speeches. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/35 "2015-12-11T21:23:18Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > But how would Trump not count as a “real conservative”? He’s not exactly saying moderate positions in his speeches. He’s not exactly following the standard movement-conservative line either – he’s going for a more Buchananite, populist-paleoconservative message – nativism, racism, protectionism, and suspicion of big biz and the Establishment. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/36 "2015-12-11T23:16:15Z")
The political science term for someone who wants to promote and encourage egalitarian change is “progressive”. Similarly, someone skeptical of such change and inclined to delay or impede is “conservative”. Someone, like Buchanan, who wants to “turn the clock back” is “reactionary”. Trump has transcended these boundaries, and the correct term is “batshit”. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/37 "2015-12-12T02:13:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The political science term for someone who wants to promote and encourage egalitarian change is “progressive”. Similarly, someone skeptical of such change and inclined to delay or impede is “conservative”. Someone, like Buchanan, who wants to “turn the clock back” is “reactionary”. Trump has transcended these boundaries, and the correct term is “batshit”. > > You’re welcome. Batshit or crazy like a fox. I suspect he’s the latter. He doesn’t have any political compass other than the one connected to his polling numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932/38 "2015-12-12T06:15:45Z")
While Occam’s Razor is often misused - it’s meant to be an imprecise guide, not the be-all, end-all debate stopper - I think it’s important to keep in mind here. Complex psychological conspiracies rarely work in the real world. Could this all be an elaborate Democratic scheme? Sure, and it’s fun to daydream about. But my money is on the simplest explanation: Trump is an egomaniac, willing to pay any price to keep the headlines coming; a large amount of Americans are bigoted idiots who’re grasping at their last straws in a rapidly progressing world. That’s it. To be honest, Trump being a Clinton plant would restore my faith in Washington a little. Imagine if our powerful political families were that competent! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-clinton-conspiracy/739932.md?page=1)