# Trump committed obstruction of justice by threatening Comey. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501 "2017-05-13T02:10:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/21 "2017-05-13T12:11:34Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I am trying to guess what the threat actually is. I can’t imagine Comey indicting himself in a taped conversation with Trump. Based on the conversation in the “You’ve told me I wasn’t a target” thread, I read this is as a warning that if Comey now says Trump was a target, Trump can produce documentary evidence (a tape) of Comey saying that Trump was not a target. But who the hell knows? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/22 "2017-05-13T12:23:39Z")
Trump is the guy with spilled groceries shouting at a car as it drives off. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/23 "2017-05-13T12:35:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Based on the conversation in the “You’ve told me I wasn’t a target” thread, I read this is as a warning that if Comey now says Trump was a target, Trump can produce documentary evidence (a tape) of Comey saying that Trump was not a target. > > But who the hell knows? But if Comey isn’t an idiot, the tape would reveal only the sound of a shower running. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/24 "2017-05-13T12:41:22Z")
there is no tape; it’s just a stupid arsed clown who can’t funcntion unless everyone knows he’s in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/25 "2017-05-13T14:20:47Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Maybe I **should of** been a lawyer so my opinion would actually make a fuck? My bolding. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/26 "2017-05-13T14:40:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Based on the conversation in the “You’ve told me I wasn’t a target” thread, I read this is as a warning that if Comey now says Trump was a target, Trump can produce documentary evidence (a tape) of Comey saying that Trump was not a target. > > But who the hell knows? I guess that’s a possibility. Still, Comey is a careful man and undoubtedly would be extra careful when talking with the loose-cannon-in-chief. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > there is no tape; it’s just a stupid arsed clown who can’t funcntion unless everyone knows he’s in charge. Oh there very easily could be tapes. It was apparently a long standing rumour he did the same in the business world. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/27 "2017-05-13T14:45:40Z")
Trump’s tweeted “threat” against Comey is one of MANY things he’s said and done, which are being blown wildly out of proportion by eager people hoping to bring Trump down. I ALSO sharply dislike Trump, and am convinced that he is continuously harming the best interests of the United States and it’s people as long as he is in office. However, jumping up and down and shouting unsupportable accusations against him every time he utters another thoughtless remark, is actually HELPING HIM STAY WHERE HE IS. This Comey “threat” is an excellent example. What Trump actually tweeted was “James Comey better hope that there are no ‘tapes’ of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press.” ``` Trump certainly insulted Comey with that, asserting that anything Comey might "leak to the press" would be a lie. But it's not even remotely a threat. And there are a lot of people in the various media who are further blowing things up, by running off with the idea that Trump was claiming that HE was recording all his meetings surreptitiously. THAT isn't there in the tweet either. ``` If a sane and sober person looks at this calmly and factually, it is easy to see that the entire thing is standard issue Trump. He is infamous for blurting things out that he thinks will work to let him have his way, without having put any thought at all into it before doing so. He has himself openly and proudly declared that he will lie, exaggerate, and say things he does not mean at all, as a part of what he thinks is a “brilliant negotiating technique.” That’s all that this is. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/28 "2017-05-13T15:17:41Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > And there are a lot of people in the various media who are further blowing things up, by running off with the idea that Trump was claiming that HE was recording all his meetings surreptitiously. THAT isn’t there in the tweet either. That’s a pretty darn reasonable assumption to make even if it isn’t explicitly in the tweet. ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/29 "2017-05-13T15:24:49Z")
Good luck with that. Aint gonna happen ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/30 "2017-05-13T15:40:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s a pretty darn reasonable assumption to make even if it isn’t explicitly in the tweet. ``` ?? You're advocating ASSUMING things that are not in the evidence presented? You're on your own with that prejudice. ``` ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/31 "2017-05-13T15:51:42Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > ?? You’re advocating ASSUMING things that are not in the evidence presented? You’re on your own with that prejudice. I’m not on a jury, my friend, and I’m not going to ridiculously naive just to give a guy like Trump the benefit of the doubt. He is undoubtedly implying that he has a tape and who the hell else would have been taping a convo between Trump and Comey. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/32 "2017-05-13T16:22:44Z")
AFAIK I have seen reports of former Trump workers that tell us that he used to record many of his conversations, but I have seen also reports of times when Trump has bluffed about an specific conversation being recorded so as to intimidate opponents, but in reality he had nothing. However, it is still a very bad idea to bluff here. > **[Trump likely bluffing on taped Comey conversations, experts say](https://www.nydailynews.com/2017/05/12/trump-likely-bluffing-on-taped-comey-conversations-experts-say/)** > > President Trump is messing with the wrong guy. If anyone were to have recorded the conversations between the President and FBI Director James Comey, as Trump has suggested, it would have been the c… > [@](#): > > President Trump is messing with the wrong guy. > > If anyone were to have recorded the conversations between the President and FBI Director James Comey, as Trump has suggested, it would have been the commander-in-chief himself, numerous experts said Friday — but it’s probably just a bluff anyway. > > Trump, however, doesn’t appear to have any idea how misguided that kind of threat is — even if it is only a sham designed to intimidate Comey. > > “He’s going after him foolishly,” Frank Montoya, Jr., a former FBI special agent who led the agency’s Seattle office, told the Daily News. “If Trump thinks that, just because that worked in his business days with unions and other executives and real estate people, he is severely mistaken.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/33 "2017-05-13T16:38:49Z")
I don’t know about you guys, but if I was talking to the president in the Oval Office (or anywhere in the WH, for that matter), I would assume that our conversation was being recorded. ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/34 "2017-05-13T17:04:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t know about you guys, but if I was talking to the president in the Oval Office (or anywhere in the WH, for that matter), I would assume that our conversation was being recorded For sure. Nixon recorded all his telephone conversations also: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jNr0_AUSR0) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/35 "2017-05-13T19:52:27Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > …Oh there very easily could be tapes. It was apparently a long standing rumour he did the same in the business world. What Trump probably does not understand is that any tapes (or digital recordings) he might be making in the White House, so long as they > [@](#): > > relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President > **[Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)](https://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html)** > > (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) § 2201. Definitions § 2202. Ownership of Presidential records § 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records § 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records § 2205. Exceptions to restricted access § 2206.... …_are not his property_. They are, under Title 44, chapter 22 of the U.S. Code, public property—and he may not destroy them under penalty of law. Furthermore, any recordings he may be making that fit the very broad definition above (one that would certainly include the ‘dinner with Comey’ as Trump describes it) may be subpoenaed by any government agency that may happen to be investigating anything relating to Trump. Trump will rue the day he posted that witless attempt to intimidate Comey. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/36 "2017-05-13T19:56:13Z")
Why would any sane POTUS record his conversations anyway - that is, conversations in which he plans to say something sketchy? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/37 "2017-05-13T20:11:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Why would any sane POTUS record his conversations anyway - that is, conversations in which he plans to say something sketchy? Nixon did it because he believed the recordings were his property and fully under his control; that changed with the 1974 addition to the US Code mentioned in my previous post (as a direct result of the Watergate scandal, of course). After 1974 some Presidents recorded and some didn’t; presumably those who recorded refrained from saying sketchy stuff. A long and on-point article is available on the NPR site, today; a short excerpt: > [@](#): > > “Reagan was presented with the option of continuing or not continuing the phone tapings in the Oval Office for national security purposes,” Politifact quotes Doyle referencing Michael Deaver, Reagan’s chief of staff. “And obviously tapings were a very controversial subject ever since the Nixon days. But Reagan could see the value of it, not so much for history but for accuracy … and readily agreed to continue the tapings.” > > Reagan recorded Situation Room calls with foreign dignitaries, and Doyle writes that there are also some 800 hours of video tapings from closed meetings with Reagan, an actor who was comfortable on camera. > > Reagan biographer Craig Shirley told Politifact that Reagan would never use the material to blackmail anyone. “Nixon, yes, Trump, yes,” he said. “Reagan? Morally impossible.” > > Ford, Carter and George H.W. Bush reportedly had no-recording rules, and there’s no evidence that Bill Clinton taped anything secretly in the White House. [The Shadowy History Of The Secret White House Tapes : NPR](http://www.npr.org/2017/05/13/528222995/the-shadowy-history-of-secret-white-house-tapes) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/38 "2017-05-13T20:11:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Why would any sane POTUS record his conversations anyway… That word, “sane”… ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/39 "2017-05-13T20:28:18Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > Trump’s tweeted “threat” against Comey is one of MANY things he’s said and done, which are being blown wildly out of proportion by eager people hoping to bring Trump down. > > I ALSO sharply dislike Trump, and am convinced that he is continuously harming the best interests of the United States and it’s people as long as he is in office. However, jumping up and down and shouting unsupportable accusations against him every time he utters another thoughtless remark, is actually HELPING HIM STAY WHERE HE IS. I’ve got to agree with this. Trump Derangement Syndrome is pretty strong. Jean-Marie le Pen (the racist French presidential candidate and father of more recent racist French presidential candidate Marine le Pen) would win “points” from voters with a “gotcha!” strategy. He would start by saying something racist and extreme. The media would exaggerate his “point”, and then he would catch them in their exaggeration. Over and over again. This made voters think the media was “picking” on him. Trump actually does have a few skills, like trolling people and causing them to act more like him (eg less sane, less intelligent, and so forth). He’s also good at making the media look like bullies when he is in fact bullying them. It’s time for the media to take a deep breath and think before responding. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/40 "2017-05-13T20:58:06Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Trump will rue the day he posted that witless attempt to intimidate Comey. I doubt it. (1) Trump does not seem much like a ruing type to me. (2) Like Inspector Clouseau, he stumbles, trips, and bungles his way along. . . inexplicably frequently avoiding the mishaps that should befall him. I’m sometimes torn between seeing him as witless and seeing as a careful planner trying to appear witless. Here his tweet stays on the legal side of not actually saying there is a recording, allowing him to drop back and claim there is no recording if necessary or produce one if needed. Is that luck or design? I honestly don’t know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501.md?page=3)