# Trump committed obstruction of justice by threatening Comey. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501 "2017-05-13T02:10:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/41 "2017-05-13T21:00:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That word, “sane”… Well, unless Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama weren’t sane… ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/42 "2017-05-13T21:15:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … Like Inspector Clouseau, he stumbles, trips, and bungles his way along. . . inexplicably frequently avoiding the mishaps that should befall him. I’m sometimes torn between seeing him as witless and seeing as a careful planner trying to appear witless. Here his tweet stays on the legal side of not actually saying there is a recording, allowing him to drop back and claim there is no recording if necessary or produce one if needed. … Trump claiming there is no recording may not keep him safe, if there is anyone else who is aware that recording has been taking place. (Note that there is no reason to assume that the Comey Dinner recording, should one exist, will prove to be the most interesting to investigators, of all recordings that have hypothetically been created in Trump’s White House.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/43 "2017-05-13T21:20:25Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Trump claiming there is no recording may not keep him safe, if there is anyone else who is aware that recording has been taking place. True. but you have to remember that for this set of people, there’s not really a “I have to comply with the law and testify truthfully,” bone in their bodies (generally). So it becomes not so much “what is true?” as “what can they prove?” This calculation applies just as strongly to any Trump confidante that has knowledge of a tape. What’s the leverage to get him to spill his guts on record? And it can’t be, “You’re under oath now and have to tell the truth,” because. . . well. . . ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/44 "2017-05-13T21:28:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True. but you have to remember that for this set of people, there’s not really a “I have to comply with the law and testify truthfully,” bone in their bodies (generally). So it becomes not so much “what is true?” as “what can they prove?” This calculation applies just as strongly to any Trump confidante that has knowledge of a tape. What’s the leverage to get him to spill his guts on record? And it can’t be, “You’re under oath now and have to tell the truth,” because. . . well. . . Of course. This is why investigations take more than a day. The leverage you mention is crucial, and the forms that leverage takes may not be immediately obvious to those who don’t know all that the investigators know. (Duh.) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/45 "2017-05-13T21:29:59Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Trump claiming there is no recording may not keep him safe, if there is anyone else who is aware that recording has been taking place. > > (Note that there is no reason to assume that the Comey Dinner recording, should one exist, will prove to be the most interesting to investigators, of all recordings that have hypothetically been created in Trump’s White House.) What are the rules on when and how any recordings must be released? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/46 "2017-05-13T21:30:12Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > My bolding. ☹ Ambivalid, in what way does this contribute to the discussion or move the debate forward? Other than hoping to establish your own vaguely-defined superiority I fail to see any purpose for the post. Please try to contribute in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/47 "2017-05-13T23:32:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > What are the rules on when and how any recordings must be released? It’s laid out here: > **[Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)](https://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html)** > > (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) § 2201. Definitions § 2202. Ownership of Presidential records § 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records § 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records § 2205. Exceptions to restricted access § 2206.... Note that Trump COULD legally delete or erase recordings, IF the Archivist gives him written permission–but not otherwise. Bet you a dollar that Trump knows none of this (but of course ignorance of the law is no defense). > [@](#): > > During the President’s term of office, the President may dispose of those Presidential records of such President that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if– > > (1) the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist concerning the proposed disposal of such Presidential records; and > > (2) the Archivist states that the Archivist does not intend to take any action under subsection (e) of this section. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/48 "2017-05-13T23:43:35Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s laid out here: > > [Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) | National Archives](https://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html) > > Note that Trump COULD legally delete or erase recordings, IF the Archivist gives him written permission–but not otherwise. Bet you a dollar that Trump knows none of this (but of course ignorance of the law is no defense). I think he was asking about “release (make public),” as opposed to “delete.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/49 "2017-05-13T23:44:37Z")
Looks like there are probably a few loopholes/roadblocks though to your suggestion that they are all readily available upon subpoena. > [@](#): > > § 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records > > (a) Prior to the conclusion of a President’s term of office or last consecutive term of office, as the case may be, the President shall specify durations, not to exceed 12 years, for which access shall be restricted with respect to information, in a Presidential record, within one or more of the following categories: ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/50 "2017-05-14T00:01:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I doubt it. > > (1) Trump does not seem much like a ruing type to me. > > (2) Like Inspector Clouseau, he stumbles, trips, and bungles his way along. . . inexplicably frequently avoiding the mishaps that should befall him. I’m sometimes torn between seeing him as witless and seeing as a careful planner trying to appear witless. Here his tweet stays on the legal side of not actually saying there is a recording, allowing him to drop back and claim there is no recording if necessary or produce one if needed. Is that luck or design? I honestly don’t know. It’s like all y’all have been asleep for the last couple of years and have not been watching Trump operate. Of COURSE there is no “tape”. Actually having the “tape” would be contrary to Trump’s purposes and MO. The purposes and MO - very successful so far - has been to make the opposition get all discombobulated over nothing that they can prove (because it’s nothing). The tweet has been an obvious part of the psychological campaign Trump has been conducting from way back in election season and until now. And of course you’re “torn”. That’s the purpose of the campaign. Trump is very carefully and methodically unpredictable. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/51 "2017-05-14T00:14:51Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > > [@NPR](#): > > > > Reagan recorded Situation Room calls with foreign dignitaries, and Doyle writes that there are also some 800 hours of video tapings from closed meetings with Reagan, an actor who was comfortable on camera. > > > > Reagan biographer Craig Shirley told Politifact that Reagan would never use the material to blackmail anyone. “Nixon, yes, Trump, yes,” he said. “Reagan? Morally impossible.” > > > > Ford, Carter and George H.W. Bush reportedly had no-recording rules, and there’s no evidence that Bill Clinton taped anything secretly in the White House. Of course universally beloved Saint Ronnie was the most upright of presidents without a dishonest bone in his body; yet I would have thought Willie might have experimented with one of those new-fangled video cameras from time to time. To impress the ladiez. > [@Sherrerd](#): > > Trump claiming there is no recording may not keep him safe, if there is anyone else who is aware that recording has been taking place. > > (Note that there is no reason to assume that the Comey Dinner recording, should one exist, will prove to be the most interesting to investigators, of all recordings that have hypothetically been created in Trump’s White House.) Everyone is assuming any recordings would be from the White House, yet Trump is one of the most peripatetic of philosophers, darting here, there, and everywhere — to places where no rules apply. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/52 "2017-05-14T00:20:53Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Trump is very carefully and methodically unpredictable. [Yes he does have the cool composure of a Machiavellian genius.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJXU7EVXs2A) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/53 "2017-05-14T20:40:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think he was asking about “release (make public),” as opposed to “delete.” That’s why I prefaced that remark with “note that” (as an indication that what followed was not strictly responsive to the original question). The answer to the original question was the link, given that the list of conditions and circumstances surrounding “release (make public)” was too long for a post–that answer is, in fact, the text of that portion of the US Code. The “note that” remark was inspired by what I believed to be the unspoken inference most of us were probably making about the situation: that the question of Release would very likely be moot if Trump got the chance to Delete, first. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Looks like there are probably a few loopholes/roadblocks though to your suggestion that they are all readily available upon subpoena. > > > [@](#): > > > > § 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records > > > > (a) Prior to the conclusion of a President’s term of office or last consecutive term of office, as the case may be, the President shall specify durations, not to exceed 12 years, for which access shall be restricted with respect to information, in a Presidential record, within one or more of the following categories: You stopped reading too soon: the relevant section is actually 2205, Exceptions to Restricted Access: > [@](#): > > Notwithstanding any restrictions on access imposed pursuant to sections 2204 and 2208– > … > (2) subject to any rights, defenses, or privileges which the United States or any agency or person may invoke, **Presidential records shall be made available** – > > ----(A) pursuant to subpoena or other judicial process issued by a court of competent jurisdiction for the purposes of any civil or criminal investigation or proceeding; > … > ----(C) to either House of Congress, or, to the extent of matter within its jurisdiction, to any committee or subcommittee thereof if such records contain information that is needed for the conduct of its business and that is not otherwise available; and … ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501/54 "2017-05-14T23:51:42Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > You stopped reading too soon: the relevant section is actually 2205, Exceptions to Restricted Access: That’s really “back at square zero,” state, though. It means records can’t be deleted to avoid subpoena, but it doesn’t eliminate the President’s room to quash based on any ordinary grounds related to production, plus executive privilege. Executive privilege might not help Trump much, though. Clinton lost when he tried to invoke it to prevent testimony from Blumenthal et al during the Lewinsky scandal. Bush was successful in invoking it on a couple of occasions but lost on the Harriet Miers / Karl Rover showdown. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-committed-obstruction-of-justice-by-threatening-comey/786501.md?page=2)