# Trump declares "National Emergency" to build The Wall-Will it hold? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 15, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617 "2019-02-15T17:54:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/41 "2019-02-15T20:00:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Well, they surely could if enough of them cared to. Well sure, it’s theoretically possible. But \*\*Czarcasm \*\*said a Republican Congress could prevent a future Democratic president from enacting ridiculous emergency measures. My point was, like this Congress, they can’t do it without a veto-proof majority in both houses. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/42 "2019-02-15T20:01:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So logically you are in support of the likely loss of readiness for our military? Don’t think so, but that is where that logic from your post leads. … Your “logic” has failed you. Why don’t you try re-reading post #17 to figure out my position rather than trying to “logic” your way into it and making a total hash of it. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/43 "2019-02-15T20:01:41Z")
How about the fact that it’s wildly unpopular? On the heels of the wildly unpopular shut down? I mean playing to the base is good during primary season, but how do you think this is playing out among independents? [https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-border-wall-national-emergency/](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-border-wall-national-emergency/) If you think only the rabid GOP base is enough to win, you weren’t paying attention in the midterms, and if this is going to continue to be his strategy, then all I can say is please proceed with doing wildly unpopular things. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/44 "2019-02-15T20:04:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > How about relocate Guantanamo prisoners to the United States over the objections of Congress? > > How about decide that migrants should be eligible for treatment at military hospitals at no cost to those receiving care? I would have thought that the power to do either of those things would come (if at all) from the President’s executive authority, not from any emergency power implicated by the National Emergencies Act. Is there some provision you’re thinking of? > [@Akaj](#): > > OK, so what’s to stop the next Democratic president from declaring that lack of access to safe abortion is a national emergency, and diverting military funds and personnel to building clinics in Kentucky? What’s your argument that he/she could? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/45 "2019-02-15T20:05:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t see where the “backtracking” is. I also still don’t see where either of those things are authorized by the National Emergencies Act. Could you point to a section of code perhaps that you think authorizes either of them? For the first, perhaps you should look up the authority with respect to military construction which is the entire reason the president declared a national emergency. For the second, 42 USC 1302b-5. So do you think your political affiliation is shaping your views on this? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/46 "2019-02-15T20:06:59Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > What’s your argument that he/she could? Because Trump is doing something equally idiotic right now? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/47 "2019-02-15T20:09:16Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Well sure, it’s theoretically possible. But \*\*Czarcasm \*\*said a Republican Congress could prevent a future Democratic president from enacting ridiculous emergency measures. My point was, like this Congress, they can’t do it without a veto-proof majority in both houses. I’m sorry-I thought you would get the reference. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/48 "2019-02-15T20:15:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your “logic” has failed you. Why don’t you try re-reading post #17 to figure out my position rather than trying to “logic” your way into it and making a total hash of it. What part of “Don’t think so” **that acknowledges already that that is not your position** do you miss? The point that you missed and continues to try to avoid by tap dancing around, is that indeed military readiness and other items will be negatively affected, and it is clear that you were a bit ignorant about what it really means to give this abuse of power to Trump. The point also was to let you know why is that you do need to be outraged much more because as it was also pointed by Military Times, what Trump is doing is seen as a big mistake by right wingers like Mackenzie Eaglen, a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute who said: the declaration “will forever destroy precedent for what constitutes an ‘emergency’ under executive authority.” She predicted an immediate and lengthy court challenge. IOW, it means that she worries that once a Democratic president is in power you are giving him or her a lot of power that me and many others think that s/he should not get. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/49 "2019-02-15T20:20:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry-I thought you would get the reference. You said: “A republican Congress given marching orders to oppose everything the Democratic President proposes, sight unseen…even if they previously supported the idea?” could stop Ms. Demprez from building abortion clinics in Kentucky under her emergency powers. I get that you were referring to the GOP opposing everything Obama (and believe me, I revile that GOP congress as much as anyone). But even that noxious bunch couldn’t have stopped this emergency powers nonsense, had Obama been craven enough to go there. Or am I missing something else? ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/50 "2019-02-15T20:20:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > For the second, 42 USC 1302b-5. Unless I’m missing something, 42 USC 1320b-5 gives the HHS Secretary authority to waive certain regulatory requirements of Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, (and other HHS administered programs) in the event of a declared emergency in order to ensure “that sufficient health care items and services are available to meet the needs of individuals in such area enrolled in the programs” administered by HHS. How would that allow HHS to authorize the treatment of aliens at military hospitals? How would the HHS Secretary have the authority to require (or authorize) military hospitals to do anything? Since they are presumably under DOD jurisdiction. What am I missing? > [@Akaj](#): > > Because Trump is doing something equally idiotic right now? Okay then. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/51 "2019-02-15T20:22:30Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Presumably the answer is that while Congress has given the President broad emergency powers, you still need to tether your actions to some statutory power. We know what Trump is relying on. I don’t know emergency power allows the President to impose income taxes (to use one of your examples) or issue education or community development grants. They could exist, but we know that they wouldn’t be supported by 10 USC 2808 (the power that, as I understand it, Trump is relying on). OK, so I can use defense funding to construct the new planned parenthood buildings but for some of the other things I’ll have to search the law books. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/52 "2019-02-15T20:25:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > For the first, perhaps you should look up the authority with respect to military construction which is the entire reason the president declared a national emergency. I have [looked it up](http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title10-section2808&num=0&edition=prelim). I don’t see the issue. Perhaps you’d like to make an argument here? > [@Ravenman](#): > > For the second, 42 USC 1302b-5. I might be doing it wrong, but I can’t find a b-5 in [42 USC 1302](http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title42-section1302&num=0&edition=prelim). Do you have a link? > [@Ravenman](#): > > So do you think your political affiliation is shaping your views on this? I suspect that our political affiliations “shape” the views of many people on many issues. On this particular issue, my view is rather unsupportive. That’s pretty much the opposite of what you’d expect if it were being shaped by my political affiliation, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/53 "2019-02-15T20:27:39Z")
So this thread consists of people that are very against the idea and one person who is “unsupportive”. Where is the debate? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/54 "2019-02-15T20:29:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So this thread consists of people that are very against the idea and one person who is “unsupportive”. > > Where is the debate? Well, some people seemed to think that the president’s emergency powers extended to raising taxes, etc. I think we’ve got all of them straightened out now though. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/55 "2019-02-15T20:31:35Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So this thread consists of people that are very against the idea and one person who is “unsupportive”. > > Where is the debate? I think the bit that you miss is that already the one that claims to be unsuportive also said later that he **still** approves of the wall even if it is funded with the equivalent of robbing Military Peter to pay Useless Paul. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/56 "2019-02-15T20:32:23Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So this thread consists of people that are very against the idea and one person who is “unsupportive”. > > Where is the debate? I was kinda hoping Ancient Erudite would show up to explain to all of us why this was in fact a legit national emergency. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/57 "2019-02-15T20:33:41Z")
I thought it was 10 U.S. Code § 2808 - Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency > **[10 U.S. Code § 2808 - Construction authority in the event of a declaration...](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808)** But I’m severely out of my depth here. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/58 "2019-02-15T20:36:38Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I was kinda hoping Ancient Erudite would show up to explain to all of us why this was in fact a legit national emergency. He was banned. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/59 "2019-02-15T20:37:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, some people seemed to think that the president’s emergency powers extended to raising taxes, etc. I think we’ve got all of them straightened out now though. So there’s literally nobody in this thread that thinks this is a good idea. Got it. Seems like a savvy political move for him. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617/60 "2019-02-15T20:37:32Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > … one person who is “unsupportive”… > [@GIGObuster](#): > > … the one that claims to be unsuportive … You guys can just say my name. I’m not (quite) Voldemort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-declares-national-emergency-to-build-the-wall-will-it-hold/829617.md?page=4)