# Trump Does Not Lie **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243 "2020-01-10T19:58:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/1 "2020-01-10T19:58:07Z")
[URL=“[The Power of Trump’s Positive Thinking - POLITICO Magazine](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/13/donald-trump-positive-thinking-215704)”]Reference: [/URL Trump is an avid follower of the phyllosophy of Dr. Norman Vincent Peale: “Stamp indelibly on your mind a mental picture of yourself as succeeding…Hold this picture tenaciously. Never permit it to fade…, Affirm it, visualize it, believe it, and it will actualize itself” “Stamp indelibly on your mind a mental picture of yourself as succeeding,” Peale urged his millions of followers. “Hold this picture tenaciously. Never permit it to fade.” eals with the world as he wishes it to be, not as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/2 "2020-01-10T20:07:31Z")
I see a major difference between “stamping an image on your mind” and then seeking to make it true and telling other people it already is true. One is trying to make the world a better place (or at least trying to put yourself into a better place). The other is lying. Trump does lie. Trump has lied. Trump will lie. Trump is lying. Trump has been lying. Trump will be lying. Trump will have been lying. Trump lied. Trump will have lied. Trump lies. Trump is a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/3 "2020-01-10T20:26:08Z")
[REFERENCE](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/13/donald-trump-positive-thinking-215704) Trump is an avid follower of Dr. Norman Vincent Peale: “Stamp indelibly on your mind a mental picture of yourself as succeeding…Hold this picture tenaciously. Never permit it to fade…, Affirm it, visualize it, believe it, and it will actualize itself” Trump deals only with the a delusional world as he wishes it to be, not the world as it is. This world view is portable. One day NATO is a bunch of foreign parasites and the next day it is a world military force commanded by Donald Trump. In both cases it fits his immediate world view and is used without concern for history or contradiction. All of his actions and utterances are referenced only to his currently internalized world view. There is no regard for ‘fact’. So, technically, he cannot lie. His outrageous statements make sense in the context of his delusional world view. He is not lying. He believes what is obviously nonsense. This situation has been public knowledge for his entire political career. It clearly explains his strange actions. I find it odd that Trump’s adherence to “The Power of Positive Thinking” is not a part of our current political debate. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/4 "2020-01-10T20:26:22Z")
I don’t see how being a positive thinker means you never lie. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/5 "2020-01-10T20:32:37Z")
Putin’s Puppet doesn’t know enough to lie. Since he knows nothing, he always says what he imagines to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/6 "2020-01-10T20:34:44Z")
Is there an echo in here? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/7 "2020-01-10T20:35:02Z")
Trump lies, but more to the point, he just says whatever he wants to say, especially what he thinks will go over well with his target audience, without regard to its truth value. We’ve had liars in a position of power before (e.g. Nixon), but we’ve never had a total fabulist like Trump in such a position before. ETA: The distinction I’m trying to make is that most of what the run-of-the-mill liar (like Nixon) says is true, with lies mixed in here and there. A fabulist (like Trump) only incidentally tells the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/8 "2020-01-10T20:35:34Z")
In order to lie you need to know the truth and deliberately misstate it. Trump simply maintains a delusional world view and acts consistently with it. He does not know the truth. RTF agreed. Trump speaks without regard for the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/9 "2020-01-10T20:36:36Z")
I’m thinking more rant than debate. Off we go. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/10 "2020-01-10T20:43:50Z")
No, Trump’s biographer has recorded in detail the extent to which Trump is a follower of Dr. Peale. No rant involved. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/11 "2020-01-10T20:45:03Z")
Sorry - I’m getting some strange delays ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/12 "2020-01-10T20:48:53Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > In order to lie you need to know the truth and deliberately misstate it. > > Trump simply maintains a delusional world view and acts consistently with it. He does not know the truth. > > RTF agreed. Trump speaks without regard for the truth. You have a valid point. Pathological liars cannot help themselves, and pathological lying is often entangled with a narcissistic or borderline personality disorder, both of which he appears to suffer from. He appears to side with whatever was most recently said to him, regardless of its absurdity, or even its contradiction to what he has said previously. I would suspect there is a lot of inside maneuvering in the WH and even online to be the last person he speaks to prior to his issuing one of his bizarre statements. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/13 "2020-01-10T20:58:59Z")
He does seek self affirmation but he doesn’t require it. The Pealthnk proposes that if you are adamant in holding to your world view, you will alter reality. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/14 "2020-01-10T21:38:05Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > No, Trump’s biographer has recorded in detail the extent to which Trump is a follower of Dr. Peale. > > No rant involved. Maybe the audio books. Scratch that, even that would require some span of attention. Bumper stickers? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/15 "2020-01-10T22:29:54Z")
Isn’t one of Trump’s (few) truisms that appearances matter more than reality? In that light, why would you trust _anything_ he says or implies, including some rather fanciful notion that he isn’t lying - he’s just positively thinking! The _perception_ that he’s an optimistic forward-thinker certainly serves him better than the reality of him being an ignorant blithering bloviating liar, no? In other words, he has thoroughly and repeatedly squandered any right he might once have had to be regarded as intelligent, truthful or wise. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/16 "2020-01-10T22:43:04Z")
“Just remember it’s not a lie if you believe it.” - George Costanza ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/17 "2020-01-10T22:52:38Z")
Notice how Trump seldom if ever accuses anybody of lying? It’s because he doesn’t know what lying means. Truth is whatever glorifies and helps him. Everything else is fake or unfair or unreal. But - it’s never a lie. Trump cannot comprehend the concept of lying, because that would mean being conscious of another human’s mental state, and likewise conscious of how that squares with reality. He doesn’t know reality, he doesn’t know other people’s minds, he doesn’t even know his own mind. He’s as ignorant of the concept of lying as a rattlesnake is ignorant of venom, but that doesn’t prevent either from being very good at what they do. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/18 "2020-01-10T23:01:15Z")
> [@pool](#): > > “Just remember it’s not a lie if you believe it.” - George Costanza “It takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.” ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/19 "2020-01-10T23:06:40Z")
Very true. Trumps reality is simply what is in his best interest at the moment. However, this is not mental disfunction, it is the dogma of his church and the teachings of Norman Vincent Peale. I find it odd thathis is not covered by those in the media (FOX excepted). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/20 "2020-01-10T23:10:00Z")
Wait, Norman Vincent Peale? That conman? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243.md?page=2)