# Trump Does Not Lie **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243 "2020-01-10T19:58:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/21 "2020-01-10T23:11:13Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Very true. > > Trumps reality is simply what is in his best interest at the moment. > > However, this is not mental disfunction, it is the dogma of his church and the teachings of Norman Vincent Peale. > > I find it odd thathis is not covered by those in the media (FOX excepted). Not true, it is a mental disorder called narcissism, it’s been covered abundantly by pretty much everyone except Fox. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/22 "2020-01-10T23:41:59Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Very true. > > Trumps reality is simply what is in his best interest at the moment. > > However, this is not mental disfunction, it is the dogma of his church and the teachings of Norman Vincent Peale. > > I find it odd thathis is not covered by those in the media (FOX excepted). And by what medium do you suppose Trump absorbs his teachings? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/23 "2020-01-10T23:49:55Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Very true. > > Trumps reality is simply what is in his best interest at the moment. > > However, this is not mental disfunction, it is the dogma of his church and the teachings of Norman Vincent Peale. > > I find it odd thathis is not covered by those in the media (FOX excepted). I don’t believe this is an accurate description of Trump’s behavior. I mean, yes. I’m sure he’s convinced himself of a number of things, like that he’s awesome, attractive, a good golfer, smarter than everybody, too smart to take advice, and so on. But the fact he gets so mad when people call his hands small means that he knows his detractors are right - if he thought his detractors were delusional he’d just be be bemused or at worst irritated. If you want to know where Trump is delusional, look at the cases where he blows off or ignores criticism. If you want to know where Trump knows that others are speaking the truth, look for his angry tweets. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/24 "2020-01-10T23:58:55Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Not true, it is a mental disorder called narcissism, it’s been covered abundantly by pretty much everyone except Fox. And here’s a refresher, in case anyone has any doubts: > [@](#): > > Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that’s vulnerable to the slightest criticism. > > A narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life, such as relationships, work, school or financial affairs. People with narcissistic personality disorder may be generally unhappy and disappointed when they’re not given the special favors or admiration they believe they deserve. They may find their relationships unfulfilling, and others may not enjoy being around them. That’s from the [Mayo website](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662), which also has a list of symptoms that describe Trump in chilling detail. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/25 "2020-01-11T01:06:59Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > …But the fact he gets so mad when people call his hands small means that he knows his detractors are right - if he thought his detractors were delusional he’d just be be bemused or at worst irritated. … That’s right. And the idea that Trump doesn’t understand what “lying” means is contradicted by his use of “Lyin’” as a nickname, as with “Lyin’ Ted Cruz”. Trump knows that a propensity to misrepresent the truth is seen as negative. Also: many of Trump’s lies are nothing whatsoever to do with ‘positive thinking’ or with actualizing self-improving traits in himself. Examples would be his repetitions of ‘Obama gave Iran \_\_\_\_\_\_ billions’ or ‘after 9-11, Muslims in New Jersey danced and celebrated on the rooftops.’ A lot of his lies are just ugly shit that he thinks make his rivals and opponents look bad, or ugly shit that will appeal to his base. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/26 "2020-01-11T01:29:46Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > But the fact he gets so mad when people call his hands small means that he knows his detractors are right - if he thought his detractors were delusional he’d just be be bemused or at worst irritated. > > If you want to know where Trump is delusional, look at the cases where he blows off or ignores criticism. If you want to know where Trump knows that others are speaking the truth, look for his angry tweets. This is why I say Trump is not delusional or a liar. A delusional person has chosen an alternate reality with different truths and lies than you or I understand. They are capable of talking about truth or lies in the context of their alternate reality. A liar understands what others believe, and forms an alternate reality to counter it. This describes Trump supporters. They are all delusional and/or liars to some extent. It doesn’t describe Trump himself. Trump does not understand reality or falsehood, cannot identify truth or lies. There is only Trump and anti-Trump. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/27 "2020-01-11T07:33:31Z")
Trying to make something true by saying it is still lying. A lie is merely a knowingly untrue statement. And if you are trying to make something happen by saying it, you inherently admit you know it isn’t true. Also, saying someone doesn’t know the difference between truth or lies is saying that person is delusional. That’s what delusion is. It’s not merely having incorrect facts. I’m sure Trump does have some incorrect facts and beliefs. But he also lies. He lies a lot. The issue is that he doesn’t see anything wrong with this. There is no need to try and absolve him of his lies by acting like he genuinely believes everything he says. The guy has admitted he sometime says one thing but actually believes another–it showed up on the Apprentice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/28 "2020-01-11T13:05:18Z")
Whether he constantly lies or constantly makes up his own reality, is this someone who should be president? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/29 "2020-01-11T14:15:30Z")
Trump exhibits psychopathic symptoms that have their origin in The Power of Positive Thinking. Norman Vincent Peale is not just the author. Peale is Trump’s minister and a life long friend and advisor. Trumps Svengali. I am amazed when Trump casually makes a statement that obviously will be proven false. Like his ‘best ever’ claims or his team of birther investigators in Hawaii. But it makes sense when you realize that he constantly interacts with the world as he imagines it to be, not as it is. To answer Brian Ekers - This man should never have been considered for the office of President. But, there cannot be a religious test for holding office and Positive Thinking is/was taught as a religious principle. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/30 "2020-01-11T14:22:24Z")
Positive thinking is a way of changing ones perspective. Trump doesn’t do it. If Trump was approaching life from a positive perspective, he’d never describe things as rigged, unfair, witch hunt, etc. You are wrong on the internet about Trump’s outlook, and furthermore, a religion it ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/31 "2020-01-11T14:34:54Z")
Actually it is - [Check it out](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/13/donald-trump-positive-thinking-215704) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/32 "2020-01-11T14:59:19Z")
If Donald “Unfair” Trump is using positive thinking, he’s naturally fucking it up. If positive thinking were a casino, Trumpy would bankrupt it. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/33 "2020-01-11T15:13:57Z")
bobot, In order to maintain a positive position, Trump is negative about everything else. Also, a serious side effect of “Positive Thinking” is that you eventually believe your own bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/34 "2020-01-11T15:22:41Z")
What nonsense. Trump tells untruths and he knows it–that’s lying. “Positive thinking” is not relevant here, and in any case that’s just a gloss for a sense of entitlement. He thinks he’s entitled to lie without accountability. He thinks the world should accept his lies so he can get what he wants, which is self-enrichment and self-aggrandizement. The only delusion here is that Trump thinks his exclusive license to lie extends beyond his family business, in which he was able to get away with it for so long because he had some money and privilege. If Trump is delusional, it’s not that he believes his lies–it’s that he thinks his “right” to lie is absolute, because he’s privileged. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/35 "2020-01-11T15:39:12Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > bobot, > > In order to maintain a positive position, Trump is negative about everything else. > > Also, a serious side effect of “Positive Thinking” is that you eventually believe your own bullshit. So what. Trumps lack of introspection or ability to understand facts may mean he has mental health issues. 'fer instance, if he actually believes that the noise from windmills causes cancer, he’s just a moron, not a positive thinker. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/36 "2020-01-11T15:51:37Z")
Really. To say Trump is not a liar because he believes his lies is the same as saying that he should be able to rob a bank be cause he thinks he is owed money. Positive thinking is making the best out of a bad situation. Trumps version of positive thinking is trying to figure out how to take advantage of others. In any case, lying is one of the least of his faults. It’s just a crutch he uses as an immoral asshole that doesn’t care about anyone but himself. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/37 "2020-01-11T15:58:36Z")
Perhaps true from our standpoint. But to understand what’s going on we have to see it from Trump’s perspective. His world view is totally delusional. That makes him unfit for public office and he should be removed. However, his world view is based in his religious education. He cannot be removed because there can be no religious test for public office. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/38 "2020-01-11T16:06:35Z")
Trump is a deceiver and among the most\* secretive and manipulative president. The secret nature does strongly indicate that he does lie, as that is needed to maintain his public image, so it is a intentional act. Thus putting forth a illusion while concealing evidence to the contrary. It is akin to lying by omission, not allowing facts to the contrary, to support ones’ view. - I don’t know many presidents, but by far and away the great deceiver of my time. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/39 "2020-01-11T16:23:07Z")
In most cases Trump does not know the truth. He neither reads nor listens. Some of his followers have told me that Trump does not lie because what he says could be true. We just don’t know (ignotum per ignotius). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/40 "2020-01-11T17:19:33Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > In most cases Trump does not know the truth. He neither reads nor listens. > > Some of his followers have told me that Trump does not lie because what he says could be true. We just don’t know (ignotum per ignotius). Like having to flush a toilet ten times? The man is an idiot and so is anyone who would believe such nonsense (or even think that it is possibly true). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243.md?page=3)