# Trump Does Not Lie **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243 "2020-01-10T19:58:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/41 "2020-01-11T17:37:23Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > In most cases Trump does not know the truth. He neither reads nor listens. > > Some of his followers have told me that Trump does not lie because what he says could be true. We just don’t know (ignotum per ignotius). I could sprout wings, we just don’t know. You’re defending him and his followers because he is ignorant, and does not read or listen. Try that in front of a judge and let us know how that works out. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/42 "2020-01-11T17:49:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Trump is a deceiver and among the most\* secretive and manipulative president. The secret nature does strongly indicate that he does lie, as that is needed to maintain his public image, so it is a intentional act. Thus putting forth a illusion while concealing evidence to the contrary. It is akin to lying by omission, not allowing facts to the contrary, to support ones’ view. > > - I don’t know many presidents, but by far and away the great deceiver of my time. Occam’s Razor would disagree. Trump proves it every day. I say he’s a stupid asshole that doesn’t care about anyone but himself. He always has been, there is plenty of evidence for that. He fell ass first into a job that is way, way beyond him. I wouldn’t trust him to be able to operate a broom. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/43 "2020-01-11T17:57:19Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Perhaps true from our standpoint. But to understand what’s going on we have to see it from Trump’s perspective. We don’t spend a lot of time looking at the world from the perspective of a criminal or a mental patient. Guess why. > [@Crane](#): > > His world view is totally delusional. Got it on first try. > [@Crane](#): > > However, his world view is based in his religious education. He cannot be removed because there can be no religious test for public office. I don’t know what the last sentence even means. As for the first: Trump’s god and religion is Trump. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/44 "2020-01-11T18:02:13Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > … > I don’t know what the last sentence even means. > … It seems important to Crane that it is established that positive thinking is a religion. (Hey, it’s as sensible as the thread title: Trump Does Not Lie.) ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/45 "2020-01-11T18:32:28Z")
That sentence is the entire point of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/46 "2020-01-11T18:34:12Z")
> [@lum\_s\_husband](#): > > That sentence is the entire point of the OP. And that suggests the original poster is _also_ deep in a reality of his own choosing. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/47 "2020-01-11T19:02:31Z")
Positive thinking by a long hair on a cross does suggest a certain religiosity, no? [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SJUhlRoBL8M/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGHIgTSg7MA8=&rs=AOn4CLCL6SOL3jKiAx7psug5DJjvx_H3cA "Eric Idle - "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life" - STEREO HQ") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/48 "2020-01-11T20:03:19Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Notice how Trump seldom if ever accuses anybody of lying? It’s because he doesn’t know what lying means. Truth is whatever glorifies and helps him. Everything else is fake or unfair or unreal. But - it’s never a lie. Trump cannot comprehend the concept of lying, because that would mean being conscious of another human’s mental state, and likewise conscious of how that squares with reality. He doesn’t know reality, he doesn’t know other people’s minds, he doesn’t even know his own mind. > > He’s as ignorant of the concept of lying as a rattlesnake is ignorant of venom, but that doesn’t prevent either from being very good at what they do. Trump is always accusing others, especially competent journalists, of lying. “Fake” is one of his favorite words. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/49 "2020-01-11T20:07:25Z")
[Peale Religion](https://www.thetruechristianfaith.com/norman-vincent-peale/) “…pastor Marble Collegiate Church, one of the oldest Protestant congregations in America. When he arrived, this church had around 600 members; upon his departure 52 years later it had 5,000. It was here that he would gain worldwide acclaim and notoriety as a teacher of positive thinking.” “…He became one of the most influential Christian leaders in the world, gaining a voice into business and politics, even officiating at the wedding of David Eisenhower and Julie Nixon. On March 26, 1984 President Ronald Reagan awarded him the highest civilian honor in the United States, the Presidential Medal of Freedom, for his contributions to theology.” Trump’s delusional world view is the product of his religious education. The result is that he has no ability to deal with objective fact. His utterances are not related to truth. Peale reality = “I think therefore it is”. Since Trump’s relation to truth is based on religion it cannot be a test for holding the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/50 "2020-01-11T20:16:57Z")
While there are no religious purity tests, there are mental competency tests. I suspect if Trump is ever judged to be mentally incompetent, it won’t be based on his commitment to the “Peale Religion”. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/51 "2020-01-11T20:40:42Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > … > "…He became one of the most influential Christian leaders in the world, … Oh, so the religion is Christianity. And you believe Trump is a Christian? In what way has Trump demonstrated this? ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/52 "2020-01-11T21:21:26Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > But, there cannot be a religious test for holding office and Positive Thinking is/was taught as a religious principle. [post 29] > > He cannot be removed because there can be no religious test for public office. [Post 37] > > Since Trump’s relation to truth is based on religion it cannot be a test for holding the Presidency.[Post 49] I’m not sure why you are obsessing on this point. No one is pushing for removing Trump based on his religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/53 "2020-01-11T21:27:54Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I’m not sure why you are obsessing on this point. No one is pushing for removing Trump based on his religious beliefs. I’m not positive, but I think the OP believes that the America-hating fuckstick’s religion renders him completely invulnerable to removal from the presidency for any reason. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/54 "2020-01-11T21:40:42Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Trump’s delusional world view is the product of his religious education. The result is that he has no ability to deal with objective fact. His utterances are not related to truth. Peale reality = “I think therefore it is”. > > Since Trump’s relation to truth is based on religion it cannot be a test for holding the Presidency. You need to understand that it doesn’t matter if it’s this religion that you claim, or it’s just that he’s a stupid asshole. Doesn’t matter one bit. Religious nut jobs, or stupid assholes are in the same group. Perhaps you think Trump is both. I don’t think ‘religion’ for whatever form you care to define it, has a thing to do with why Trump is a stupid asshole. And I don’t care what made him a stupid asshole. Perhaps that was how he was born, or his destiny. Perhaps both. Doesn’t matter one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/55 "2020-01-15T06:34:06Z")
There seems to be a philosophical and semantic point, is an untruth a \*lie \* if the speaker believes it to be true? It’s still an untruth, but is it a \*lie \*? > [@bobot](#): > > And by what medium do you suppose Trump absorbs his teachings? It is true that Donald Trump is a follower of Peale. His parents were members of the church where Peale was pastor. Donald grew up listening to his sermons. And Donald stayed a follower. Peale officiated at his first wedding to Ivana. [This article](https://www.insidehook.com/article/history/norman-vincent-peale-power-problems-presidential-positive-thinking) discusses the connection. > [@Crane](#): > > Trump’s delusional world view is the product of his religious education. The result is that he has no ability to deal with objective fact. His utterances are not related to truth. Peale reality = “I think therefore it is”. > > Since Trump’s relation to truth is based on religion it cannot be a test for holding the Presidency. This is not true. While there is no religious test for office, that doesn’t mean anything claimed to be a religious belief has to be allowed. If so, we couldn’t prosecute those religious nuts that say their religion requires them to marry thirteen year olds. Congress _could_ impeach him and remove him for office for being a reckless idiot who has squandered our national influence and weakened our ties to our allies, or for starting a war with Iran without authorization, or for betraying or allies (Kurds) and strengthening our adversaries (Russia). Or they could impeach him for wearing a tan suit. The question is, will they? Pealism and Positive Thinking aren’t a defense against criminal behavior and stupidity. > [@bobot](#): > > Oh, so the religion is Christianity. And you believe Trump is a Christian? In what way has Trump demonstrated this? No, the religion is Norman Vincent Pealism, a sect of Christianity with a lot of stuff slathered on top. Trump’s religion is positive thinking and self-aggrandizement, not the Jesus stuff. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/56 "2020-01-15T10:10:29Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Perhaps true from our standpoint. But to understand what’s going on we have to see it from Trump’s perspective. > > His world view is totally delusional. That makes him unfit for public office and he should be removed. However, his world view is based in his religious education. He cannot be removed because there can be no religious test for public office. You have failed to articulate why we must see it from Trump’s eyes. In fact, you have only told us why such an interpretation is undesirable. You have even told us that it is the argument that Trump’s supporters make. I see no reason that I should care how Trump sees anything. What matters is that what he’s saying is false and causing harm. If you care about not causing harm, then you should want to prevent him from having power. If you want him to stay in power, then you need to come up with a reason why you can’t remove him. Not all defenses of someone actually say “He’s the greatest ever.” Sometimes they agree something is bad, but argue there is no choice. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/57 "2020-01-15T10:12:03Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > No, the religion is Norman Vincent Pealism, a sect of Christianity with a lot of stuff slathered on top. Trump’s religion is positive thinking and self-aggrandizement, not the Jesus stuff. If it lacks the Jesus stuff, then it isn’t Pealism. It isn’t a form of Christianity at all. The Secret is not a religion. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243/58 "2020-01-15T23:20:50Z")
So if a worshiper of Satan’s Cult of Child Sacrificers were running for office good on him because his beliefs are his RELIGION so he can’t be faulted for his RELIGIOUS beliefs. I guess sacrificing children is against the law, but Trumps lies aren’t? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-not-lie/846243.md?page=2)