# Trump does something right **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374 "2018-12-19T16:17:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/21 "2018-12-20T00:18:29Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > … ah yes the communist plot of the international postal union, in effect since the year 1873… First, it’s ‘Universal Postal Union’. Second, if you want to push back on claims that it’s outdated and need of revisiting, it’s not exactly a stinging rebuttal to point out that it’s been there since 1873. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/22 "2018-12-20T00:29:47Z")
No in fact it is l’Union postale universelle, as its legal name, and the operating langauge is the French language. But of course the rational response to a problem of the rates imbalances emerging from the e-commerce era is not to engage in adjustment dialogues, but to leave a coordinating mechanism more than 100 years old in track record which literally every country with the operating postal service is a member… very rational this type of decision. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/23 "2018-12-20T00:47:31Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > No in fact it is l’Union postale universelle, as its legal name, and the operating langauge is the French language. _shrug_ _universelle_ and _internationale_ are distinct words in French. Kudos for correcting your own mistranslation. I’m most comfortable in English but if you feel like your point is better made in French then by all means let’s hear that. > [@](#): > > But of course the rational response to a problem of the rates imbalances emerging from the e-commerce era is not to engage in adjustment dialogues, but to leave a coordinating mechanism more than 100 years old in track record which literally every country with the operating postal service is a member… very rational this type of decision. _shrug_ “We’ve always done it this way” is not an argument. Next. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/24 "2018-12-20T03:25:19Z")
It isn’t a right thing. And I would be very curious to know why leaving the postal union was the right thing to do too. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/25 "2018-12-20T04:11:27Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > And I would be very curious to know why leaving the postal union was the right thing to do too. Are you likewise curious about reasons to stay in it? What’s your position? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/26 "2018-12-20T04:34:52Z")
I will concede that the Russians gain credibility by propping up Assad. They can go to other dictators and say “Look, this is a sign that we’re reliable. Join our team and we’ll make sure you stay in power too.” But should America try the same thing? Do we really want to put a Syrian Diem in power and then commit American resources to keeping him in power? I think the United States should be seeking international credibility in other more positive ways. If this was about helping establish a legitimate stable democracy, I’d say we should go for it. If this was even about supporting a dictator who had been an American ally, I might accept that we owed the guy. But I don’t see how propping up Assad or replacing him with a different but equivalent dictator is a cause worth American troops fighting for. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/27 "2018-12-20T04:39:17Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Turkey might…not sure there…but then Erdogan isn’t exactly on friendly terms with the US these days and has his own agenda. Forums poster **XT** : manages to write like a novella’s worth of rambling about Syria while freely admitting he doesn’t even know or care to know what Turkey’s position is. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/28 "2018-12-20T04:46:49Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Forums poster **XT** : manages to write like a novella’s worth of rambling about Syria while freely admitting he doesn’t even know or care to know what Turkey’s position is. My man have you heard of Enlightened Centrism? It’s all the rage. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/29 "2018-12-20T05:54:05Z")
I’m concerned that I seem to be the only one that can see what Trump is up to here. I’m scared this means that my mind has adapted to his, since it seems so obvious, but nobody else sees it. He wants ALL the pushback on this that ALL the critics and pundits of the media, MIC, and politicians can muster. He will then simply designate them ALL as members of the “Deep State” behind it ALL (non-Syria related) and will call for them ALL to be considered enemies of the state/purged. Mark my words. And sorry, no, this is not a doomsaying **asahi** parody. The difference is that I don’t think Trump can pull it off. I’m only making the prediction for both bragging rights and so we can all PALATR while he fumbles around trying to figure out how to get the purges going. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/30 "2018-12-20T06:10:44Z")
I also meant to mention that this is also the pre-retconning of his presidential legacy. It’s a big decision he can make unilaterally, it has automatic popular support, and he can always point back to it as being “correct” without anybody being able to prove otherwise. He will claim to have been pushed out by all the evil people who only came after him because he cut off their Syria spiggot. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/31 "2018-12-20T06:28:50Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It isn’t a right thing. > > And I would be very curious to know why leaving the postal union was the right thing to do too. AFAICT it would be fairly counterproductive and disruptive for the US **actually** to leave the UPU. But it may be a useful negotiating tactic for the US to **threaten** to leave the UPU, as [this article suggests](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-made-the-right-call-to-withdraw-from-the-universal-postal-union/2018/10/28/7dbdde34-d3cb-11e8-83d6-291fcead2ab1_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.236fabb1ea31). > [@](#): > > Despite recent modest reforms, China’s postal system still enjoys most of the benefits of the 1969 arrangement. In some cases, this means that it can be cheaper to ship a small package from China to a final U.S. destination than to ship the same item from one part of this country to another. Not only does this cost the U.S. Postal Service an estimated $300 million per year and undercut U.S. companies, it may also be facilitating the deadly trans-Pacific traffic in fentanyl, a synthetic opioid. > > U.S. businesses and the Postal Service — whose financial problems are too serious to tolerate any avoidable losses — have known about, and complained about, this anomaly for years. It has proved extremely difficult to remedy, in part because of the cumbersome internal decision-making processes at the UPU, which essentially require the agreement of a majority of the 192 countries represented. Once a decision gets made, it can take up to 18 months to implement. By giving the UPU a year’s notice that the United States plans to withdraw, Mr. Trump leverages the United States’ clout as the processor of nearly half the world’s mail and follows through on the notice his representatives gave to the UPU at a September meeting. In this case, the president speaks not only for himself but also for a wide cross-section of U.S. interest groups and, given China’s economic progress since 1969, simple fairness. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/32 "2018-12-20T07:37:33Z")
The idea that it’s a good idea to do something Russia wants us to do while dealing with Russia having hijacked our elections is moronic. If there is an argument for pulling out, that argument can be had only after Russia is properly punished, so that we aren’t just doing Russia’s bidding. And there is basically no chance that Trump isn’t pulling out because Putin told him he needs to. There’s no chance this wasn’t one of the things Putin wanted if he got Trump elected. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/33 "2018-12-20T11:53:21Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Forums poster **XT** : manages to write like a novella’s worth of rambling about Syria while freely admitting he doesn’t even know or care to know what Turkey’s position is. So instead of criticizing, why don’t you explain to us the Turkish government’s position and why Americans should give two shits about it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/34 "2018-12-20T12:04:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Syria may have been a Russian client, but Russia never stationed troops there, until now. Don’t underestimate the power of boots on the ground, even symbolically. The U.S. just made Russia the dominant superpower in the Middle East. > > Look, it’s your army, and I’m not asking you to fight other peoples’ wars. But this ain’t over yet, not by a long shot. It would be better to stay now than have to come back later when things are much, much worse. Look you got your Jerusalem embassy. Now you got Mother Russia next door. Every silver lining had a cloud, and the Motherland has a _lot_ of clouds. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/35 "2018-12-20T12:26:05Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > First, it’s ‘Universal Postal Union’. Second, if you want to push back on claims that it’s outdated and need of revisiting, it’s not exactly a stinging rebuttal to point out that it’s been there since 1873. If the problem with it that it’s in need of revisiting, then perhaps the stinging rebuttal is along the lines of “it’s more in our interests to have a voice in whatever emerges from such a revisiting than to not.” Kinda like the Brexit argument, elsewhere in this forum. ETA: Actually, the thing that worries me is that Himself might be withdrawing from the union as a prelude to abandoning the national postal service. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/36 "2018-12-20T12:45:00Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Look you got your Jerusalem embassy. Now you got Mother Russia next door. Every silver lining had a cloud, and the Motherland has a _lot_ of clouds. I kept on warning people last year not to get to excited about the embassy move. Sure, it was a nice gesture, but that’s all it was - a gesture. I told them that if Trump were really on our side, he’d be working to get Russia and Iran out of Syria. I hate being right sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/37 "2018-12-20T13:03:25Z")
I dunno. Its seems to me that, almost across the board, people who are being there and doing that agree that this pullout is bad idea. But what do they know? They probably don’t even read the SDMB. Oh, and I agree with senoy regarding screwing the Kurds over. Bad, bad, bad. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/38 "2018-12-20T13:29:54Z")
I’m extremely skeptical that the good outweighs the bad with US troops on the ground in the Middle East in all but the narrowest of circumstances (very clear mission, supported by regional partners, with a very clear path to victory and exit). Thus I think getting them out is probably better than leaving them there. Shitty circumstances all around. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/39 "2018-12-20T13:44:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I will concede that the Russians gain credibility by propping up Assad. They can go to other dictators and say “Look, this is a sign that we’re reliable. Join our team and we’ll make sure you stay in power too.” > > But should America try the same thing? Do we really want to put a Syrian Diem in power and then commit American resources to keeping him in power? I think the United States should be seeking international credibility in other more positive ways. > > If this was about helping establish a legitimate stable democracy, I’d say we should go for it. If this was even about supporting a dictator who had been an American ally, I might accept that we owed the guy. But I don’t see how propping up Assad or replacing him with a different but equivalent dictator is a cause worth American troops fighting for. A counterpoint might be that a strong Russia can help serve as a check on China. So Syria right now is in Russia’s camp and by extension Iran. That means they aren’t in China’s pocket. Is that good or bad? I don’t know, but it’s something to at least ponder. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374/40 "2018-12-20T13:52:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I kept on warning people last year not to get to excited about the embassy move. Sure, it was a nice gesture, but that’s all it was - a gesture. I told them that if Trump were really on our side, he’d be working to get Russia and Iran out of Syria. > > I hate being right sometimes. Well as a Pakistani I can tell you having a Superpower _and_ your regional rival having a major presence in a war torn neighbour who had irredentist claims on your territory is just.the.greatest.thing. Maybe you guys are willing to trade neighbours? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-does-something-right/826374.md?page=3)