# Trump doesn’t believe in climate change... or so he says **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054 "2017-12-22T16:45:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/1 "2017-12-22T16:45:13Z")
He just removed climate change from the Nation Security Risk list. He has repeatedly deemed it a hoax and a con. In other news he has applied for and received permission to build a sea wall to protect his golf course in Ireland (amid the protests of many Irelanders) citing international rising sea levels. Baffoon. Cite: [Trump will build a wall in Ireland to protect his golf course from climate change](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/12/22/trump-will-build-a-wall-in-ireland-to-protect-his-golf-course-from-climate-change/23315071/) ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/2 "2017-12-22T17:41:51Z")
I don’t necessarily see a contradiction. It is entirely possible to observe and believe that the climate is changing - getting warmer - and that sea levels will rise, but also believe that: a) humans have little or nothing to do with it; or b) that it isn’t worth passing laws, increasing regulations and harming the economy in return for an infinitesimal difference in the end result over the next 100 years. The climate has always been changing, and will continue to do so. Whether or not you believe that humans are a primary cause in current change, it does not necessarily follow that imposing costly “cures” in the US will make any meaningful difference. I’m not saying these are Trump’s beliefs, as I have no interest in researching what he thinks on the matter. I agree that he is a buffoon, if not indeed a baffoon (whatever that is). But wanting to protect his own property isn’t evidence that he secretly believes in man-made global warming. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/3 "2017-12-22T17:56:37Z")
According to [this](https://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-climate-change-golf-course-223436) article: > [@](#): > > A permit application for the wall, filed by Trump International Golf Links Ireland and reviewed by POLITICO, explicitly cites global warming and its consequences — increased erosion due to rising sea levels and extreme weather this century — as a chief justification for building the structure And according to [this](http://www.newsweek.com/what-has-trump-said-about-global-warming-quotes-climate-change-paris-agreement-618898) article, Trump has said things like: > [@](#): > > The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive and > [@](#): > > This very expensive GLOBAL WARMING bullshit has got to stop. Our planet is freezing, record low temps,and our GW scientists are stuck in ice Among others. Seems like a contradiction to me. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/4 "2017-12-22T18:16:10Z")
Moving to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/5 "2017-12-22T18:20:16Z")
I don’t believe Trump or any Republican politician doesn’t believe that climate change is real, and that prople can influence it. But I believe that they put their personal greed ahead of any concern and claim that they don’t believe it. This way they can lie about being liars. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/6 "2017-12-22T18:34:09Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I don’t believe Trump or any Republican politician doesn’t believe that climate change is real, and that prople can influence it. But I believe that they put their personal greed ahead of any concern and claim that they don’t believe it. This way they can lie about being liars. I make no claim or speculation about what Trump himself believes but my republican friends believe it is a hoax - even the most intelligent and sober minded of the group. You are probably right about politicians though. Right-leaning dopers, what say you? . ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/7 "2017-12-22T19:44:35Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > I don’t necessarily see a contradiction. It is entirely possible to observe and believe that the climate is changing - getting warmer - and that sea levels will rise, but also believe that: a) humans have little or nothing to do with it; or b) that it isn’t worth passing laws, increasing regulations and harming the economy in return for an infinitesimal difference in the end result over the next 100 years. The climate has always been changing, and will continue to do so. Whether or not you believe that humans are a primary cause in current change, it does not necessarily follow that imposing costly “cures” in the US will make any meaningful difference. First of all, to be clear, the Trump administration has removed climate change from the [executive National Security Strategy statement](https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/NSS-Final-12-18-2017-0905.pdf). Some discussion in [_Scientific American_](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-drops-climate-threats-from-national-security-strategy/) about the contradictions between climate change denial and actual policy. It should be noted that this statement is not itself a policy statement, although it is obviously political guidance to how executive policy is to be formed under the administration. Curiously, this is inconsistent with what Secretary of Defense James Mattis [has testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trumps-defense-secretary-cites-climate-change-as-national-security-challenge/), as well as Department of Defense long term national security analysis and strategies including preparing for climate change-induced conflicts, seeking out alternate sources of energy, and otherwise anticipating effects of climate change. The 2017 defense authorization bill passed by Congress and signed by the President explicitly identified climate change as a threat to national security. And no, it is not “entirely possible to observe and believe that the climate is changing - getting warmer - and that sea levels will rise, but also believe that: a) humans have little or nothing to do with it; or b) that it isn’t worth passing laws, increasing regulations and harming the economy,” without denying both the overwhelming scientific consensus of anthropogenic causes and extensive economic and national security analyses on the impacts of climate change. Far from “harming the economy”, making sensible plans now about coping with the inevitable challenges of change to the climate will aid in managing the economic and security impacts even if it is deemed undesirable to move away from fossil fuel energy sources. But hey, Madman theory! Keep ‘em guessing! Eight dimensional hyperchess strategery! I’m sure this all makes sense in the Escher painting that is Trump’s mind. Or, just go with me on this, he’s’ a self-aggrandizing, petulant, infantile narcissist who cares just enough about his fucking golf course to build a seawall, but not enough to actually look out for the future of the nation that he is ostensibly leading. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/8 "2017-12-22T19:59:31Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I don’t believe Trump or any Republican politician doesn’t believe that climate change is real, and that prople can influence it. But I believe that they put their personal greed ahead of any concern and claim that they don’t believe it. This way they can lie about being liars. I think this is largely true, but I would bet real US$$ that there are some GOP Congresscritters who think climate change, if it is happening, is not caused by human activity. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/9 "2017-12-23T00:39:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think this is largely true, but I would bet real US$$ that there are some GOP Congresscritters who think climate change, if it is happening, is not caused by human activity. Not truthfully they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/10 "2017-12-23T01:02:49Z")
I don’t like defending Trump, but the idea that he had anything to do with filling out the permit application or had even laid eyes on it is pretty ridiculous. Trump says global warming is a hoax. Someone working for the Trump organization filling out a permit application included language that they thought would increase the the likelihood of that application being approved. There’s no contradiction here. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/11 "2017-12-23T01:07:45Z")
Who’s in charge of the Trump organization again? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/12 "2017-12-23T01:12:04Z")
I’ll take Putin for $100, Alex! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/13 "2017-12-23T01:51:31Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Not truthfully they don’t. Well, “truth” could be held to be in the eye of the beholder. These are people who clearly believe things that are not supported by any kind of fact or objective evidence. And given the composition of Congress which is [predominantly lawyers, businesspeople, and professional politicians](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-10/the-113th-congress-by-the-numbers) whose view reality through their filters if litigation, profit, and politicking rather than education, information, and science. There are a handful of educators and career retired military, a small fraction of accountants, entertainers, and community/social workers, a smattering of tradespeople and farmers, three engineers, one microbiologist, and one physicist. These are the people making law based upon technical information and research that will have impact on our socioeconomic, environmental, and educational well-being for decades, and the vast majority of them could probably not state Newton’s laws of motion or the central dogma of molecular biology. Most of these people don’t know much of anything beyond their party dogma and how to appeal for campaign funds. I wouldn’t be at all suprised that many of these people sincerely hold completly counterfactual beliefs with no sense of conflict or irony whatsoever. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/14 "2017-12-23T01:59:27Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Who’s in charge of the Trump organization again? [Eric and Donald Trump, Jr., of course!](https://youtu.be/-OBiSNOumtU) “The only people making decisions about the Trump Organization are Eric and myself.” “And Dad!” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/15 "2017-12-23T02:00:54Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Well, “truth” could be held to be in the eye of the beholder. These are people who clearly believe things that are not supported by any kind of fact or objective evidence. And given the composition of Congress which is [predominantly lawyers, businesspeople, and professional politicians](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-10/the-113th-congress-by-the-numbers) whose view reality through their filters if litigation, profit, and politicking rather than education, information, and science. There are a handful of educators and career retired military, a small fraction of accountants, entertainers, and community/social workers, a smattering of tradespeople and farmers, three engineers, one microbiologist, and one physicist. These are the people making law based upon technical information and research that will have impact on our socioeconomic, environmental, and educational well-being for decades, and the vast majority of them could probably not state Newton’s laws of motion or the central dogma of molecular biology. Most of these people don’t know much of anything beyond their party dogma and how to appeal for campaign funds. I wouldn’t be at all suprised that many of these people sincerely hold completly counterfactual beliefs with no sense of conflict or irony whatsoever. > > Stranger That’s a great analysis of the thoughts and lack of intelligence of our elected officials. I just think they are lying 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/16 "2017-12-23T02:12:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s a great analysis of the thoughts and lack of intelligence of our elected officials. > > I just think they are lying 🙂 At some point, it becomes very difficult to distinguish being presenting a mean field approximation of being insufferably ignorant in an expert effort of misdirection and actually being dumber than a bag of hair. I call it the Fey/Palin correspondence. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/17 "2017-12-23T02:18:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I call it the Fey/Palin correspondence. > > Stranger Stealing! ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/18 "2017-12-23T03:15:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > He just removed climate change from the Nation Security Risk list. He has repeatedly deemed it a hoax and a con. > > In other news he has applied for and received permission to build a sea wall to protect his golf course in Ireland (amid the protests of many Irelanders) citing international rising sea levels. > > Baffoon. > > Cite: [Trump will build a wall in Ireland to protect his golf course from climate change](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/12/22/trump-will-build-a-wall-in-ireland-to-protect-his-golf-course-from-climate-change/23315071/) I don’t know if he’s a baffoon, but he’s for sure a moran. [https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/morans.jpg](https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/morans.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-doesn-t-believe-in-climate-change-or-so-he-says/805054/19 "2017-12-23T15:09:54Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Not truthfully they don’t. Yeah, people who believe the earth is 6,000 years old would never hold any [other] crazy ideas.