# "Trump Foundation lacks the certification required for charities that solicit money" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297 "2016-09-30T18:37:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/41 "2016-10-03T18:03:18Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > [$258,000 of the Trump Foundation money went to settle Donald Trump’s lawsuits](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-used-258000-from-his-charity-to-settle-legal-problems/2016/09/20/adc88f9c-7d11-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html) > > Does this seem appropriate to you? > > Maybe ask the independent board of directors for the Trump Foundation; Mr. Trump, his kids and one of his employees. Is the other employee named Scapegoat McRedShirt? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/42 "2016-10-03T18:04:05Z")
You mean Trump has a Foundation of Clay…? “Say It Ain’t So…!” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/43 "2016-10-03T18:04:39Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Is the other employee named Scapegoat McRedShirt? I think it’s John Barron. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/44 "2016-10-03T18:17:18Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I’m starting to think maybe he doesn’t hire the best lawyers. I think he hires the lawyers and accountants who will tell him what he wants to hear. If they don’t, they don’t get paid. So you get lawyers who will tell you what the requirement for filing is, but tell you that “the State doesn’t really have good systems to check - so you can take the risk that it will never come up” and Trump - risk taker that he is, takes the bet he won’t get caught. Tax accounting works the same way - there are rules that are black and white - and there are some things that are a little grey, or that you can get by hiding because the chances they’ll be found is small (cash under the table transactions, for instance. Chances of getting caught taking cash under the table - as long as most of your income is reported - are pretty small - its illegal, and you shouldn’t do it - but you can find accountants who will tell you the risk is small - probably not in writing, they could lose their license.) When I worked in corporate tax, the game was to push that grey area to just over the breaking point. You knew you’d pay something under audit, but hopefully it would be less than you paid without taking the risks. And the advantage to pushing to the breaking point was that the auditors would find something - that might distract them from finding the rest. (It wasn’t the most ethical place I’ve ever worked, but I was just a legal assistant/bookkeeper) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/45 "2016-10-03T18:21:11Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Does this seem appropriate to you? Are you assuming that I am a Trump supporter? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/46 "2016-10-03T18:23:22Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > If you have any idea where the money has actually gone please share it. In addition to the lawsuit payoffs, there’s also the political donation they made to the Florida Attorney General until it got spotted by a watchdog group. [WaPo article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/01/trump-pays-irs-a-penalty-for-his-foundation-violating-rules-with-gift-to-florida-attorney-general/) But aside from all that, plus the portraits of himself and sports paraphernalia they’ve bought at charity auctions, I’m sure the foundation does good work. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/47 "2016-10-03T18:31:14Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Are you assuming that I am a Trump supporter? No, why would I? Does it seem appropriate? Are you satisfied that the Trump Foundation spends it’s money to benefit Mr. Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/48 "2016-10-03T18:32:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But aside from all that, plus the portraits of himself and sports paraphernalia they’ve bought at charity auctions, I’m sure the foundation does good work. Sure, just check their audited statements… Oh wait. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/49 "2016-10-03T19:36:14Z")
Since there have been no audits of the Trump Foundation can the New York AG now subpoena Trumps Federal tax returns as part of an investigation into his foundation? Would this make them public record at some point? Or is this another excuse for him not to release them, “My attorneys don’t want me releasing them while I am under indictment!”. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/50 "2016-10-03T19:50:08Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Since there have been no audits of the Trump Foundation can the New York AG now subpoena Trumps Federal tax returns as part of an investigation into his foundation? Would this make them public record at some point? Or is this another excuse for him not to release them, “My attorneys don’t want me releasing them while I am under indictment!”. Does it matter? He wasn’t going to release them under any circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/51 "2016-10-03T20:16:20Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Does it matter? He wasn’t going to release them under any circumstances. But can he be forced to release them to the New York State AG and be used as evidence? Could they they then become (in whole or in part) publicly available documents? I’m thinking this could be really nasty for him. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/52 "2016-10-03T20:36:55Z")
I know this newspaper hates Trump since he so Presidentially banned them from covering his rallys, but this is still, after all, news. Cease And Desist Your Shenanigan Fundraising In New York: > **[Trump Foundation ordered to stop fundraising by N.Y. attorney general’s office](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-foundation-ordered-to-stop-fundraising-by-ny-attorney-generals-office/2016/10/03/1d4d295a-8987-11e6-bff0-d53f592f176e_story.html)** > > The charity broke state law by soliciting donations without proper authorization, officials said. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/53 "2016-10-03T21:40:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The foundation looks like nothing more than a scheme to collect money, issue tax receipts, and then funnel the money back into Trump’s own pockets or to whatever he feels like. LOCK HIM UP! Arrest him! And since orange is the new black, Trump could be in trouble if he makes a false move. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/54 "2016-10-03T23:17:46Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I’m starting to think maybe he doesn’t hire the best lawyers. [According to this earlier WaPo story](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-directed-23-million-owed-to-him-to-his-charity-instead/2016/09/26/7a9e9fac-8352-11e6-ac72-a29979381495_story.html), the foundation hasn’t paid legal bills in the past 6 years. And in 2010 - only paid $53 in legal anything. So - no, probably not the best. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/55 "2016-10-03T23:28:04Z")
Maybe the best lawyers are lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/56 "2016-10-04T20:10:55Z")
RealClearPolitics has an article out now showing what it alleges are Trump Foundation donations to conservative political groups in exchange for speaking time in front of those groups, going back to 2011. [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/10/04/trump\_used\_foundation\_funds\_for\_2016\_run\_filings\_suggest.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/10/04/trump_used_foundation_funds_for_2016_run_filings_suggest.html) > [@RCP article on Trump foundation political spending](#): > > From 2011 through 2014, Trump harnessed his eponymous foundation to send at least $286,000 to influential conservative or policy groups, a RealClearPolitics review of the foundation’s tax filings found. In many cases, this flow of money corresponded to prime speaking slots or endorsements that aided Trump as he sought to recast himself as a plausible Republican candidate for president. > > Although sources familiar with the thinking behind the donations cautioned that Trump did not explicitly ask for favors in return for the money, they said the contributions were part of a deliberate effort by Trump to ingratiate himself with influential conservatives and brighten his political prospects. > > “He was politically active starting in 2011,” said one source with ties to Trump, and at that point he “started to make strategic donations.” > > The lion’s share of those donations came from Trump’s personal funds and went straight to political campaigns or parties. But others, in particular those directed to the nonprofit arms of conservative policy groups, originated with Trump’s foundation. > > “If he could do 501(c)(3) to 501(c)(3), he did it that way,” said the source, using the tax code designation for nonprofit organizations. The big problem with this is that Trump himself hasn’t donated to his personal Foundation since 2008. All of the money coming from the Foundation was coming from donors who believed it would be spent on charity. They weren’t told that their donations would be used to further Donald’s personal political ambitions. Using the money from the Foundation for his personal benefit is self-dealing - which we already he knew he was doing. But it also trips over some of the IRS designations for what is or is not a non-profit political donation. > [@RCP](#): > > But RCP’s review of IRS filings by the Trump foundation turned up a fresh conflict: a 2013 donation of $10,000 to The Family Leader, a 501(c)(4) established to “develop, advocate and support legislative agenda at the state level.” Unlike a 501(c)(3), or a nonprofit organization, a 501(c)(4) can effect policy and engage in limited political activity, and thus is subject to greater restrictions on contributions from charities. > > If the Trump foundation sent its money to The Family Leader and not its affiliated nonprofit, it did not properly note it in the filing and might have failed to earmark the money for charitable purposes, a violation of IRS rules. If the money was sent to the Family Leader Foundation, it was not recorded as such. “It’s not sexy but it has teeth”, as someone who should know, once said. Hopefully this will lead to more headaches for the Trump family and some fruitful debate prep for Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/57 "2016-10-04T20:54:14Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > All of the money coming from the Foundation was coming from donors who believed it would be spent on charity. They weren’t told that their donations would be used to further Donald’s personal political ambitions. Frankly, I doubt that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/58 "2016-10-04T21:05:02Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Frankly, I doubt that. If he’s spending charitable (and tax-deductible) donations for political purposes (which aren’t tax-deductible), either he’s deceiving his donors, or his donors are participating in deceiving the IRS. I’m only not using the word “defrauding” because I worry some nitpicky lawyer will come along and insist I quote the statute and case law to support that word’s use :). ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/59 "2016-10-04T21:14:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If he’s spending charitable (and tax-deductible) donations for political purposes (which aren’t tax-deductible), either he’s deceiving his donors, or his donors are participating in deceiving the IRS. . Or they didn’t give a crap what he spent the money on and were just giving money to curry favor with the Donald. Which of those three reasons do you think is the most likely? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297/60 "2016-10-04T21:16:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Frankly, I doubt that. I think you are right in that assumption; a lot of the donors were told to pay into the Trump Foundation rather that pay Trump directly for appearance fees or other debts. They may possibly have _thought_ that Donald was being charitable, but in a lot of cases, they probably didn’t care. From my own very non-expert perspective, it certainly looks like a tax-avoidance scheme; money gets paid to The Donald tax-free which he then uses to pay for personal items such as legal obligations. A rather interesting question, however, is whether the donations to the Trump Foundation are tax deductible for the persons making the donations. In that case, one would assume that getting a nice tax deduction in exchange for buying The Donald a Tim Tebow helmet would make the IRS rather cross. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-foundation-lacks-the-certification-required-for-charities-that-solicit-money/767297.md?page=4)