# Trump going after McRaven **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 19, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785 "2018-11-19T12:03:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785/41 "2018-11-21T21:28:35Z")
How long before Trump’s obvious disdain for military service – dissing McRaven, skipping Veteran’s Day, deploying troops to combat the “invasion” – leads to military command questioning his fitness to lead them? And what might that look like? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785/42 "2018-11-21T21:49:00Z")
Ummm never? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785/43 "2018-11-21T22:32:47Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > How long before Trump’s obvious disdain for military service – dissing McRaven, skipping Veteran’s Day, deploying troops to combat the “invasion” – leads to military command questioning his fitness to lead them? > > And what might that look like? > [@Chingon](#): > > Ummm never? And you think so why? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785/44 "2018-11-21T22:37:29Z")
It looks like what we’ve got right now: Prominent officers giving speeches denouncing him, while still following his lawful orders. The point at which they take more extreme action is the point at which he starts issuing unlawful orders, which he mostly hasn’t bothered with yet. But everyone in the military has the distinction between unlawful orders and lawful but stupid orders very thoroughly drilled into their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785/45 "2018-11-21T22:45:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It looks like what we’ve got right now: Prominent officers giving speeches denouncing him, while still following his lawful orders. The point at which they take more extreme action is the point at which he starts issuing unlawful orders, which he mostly hasn’t bothered with yet. But everyone in the military has the distinction between unlawful orders and lawful but stupid orders very thoroughly drilled into their heads. Are there prominent _active_ officers denouncing him? And if so, would that be grounds for discipline? I’m asking honestly out of complete ignorance of military protocol. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785/46 "2018-11-21T23:03:23Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Are there prominent _active_ officers denouncing him? And if so, would that be grounds for discipline? I’m asking honestly out of complete ignorance of military protocol. Recently SecDef Mattis was accused of being disrespectful of President Trump. His response included this: > [@](#): > > … In serving in this administration, the idea that I would show contempt for the elected Commander-in-Chief, President Trump, or tolerate disrespect to the office of the President from within our Department of Defense, is a product of someone’s rich imagination. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785/47 "2018-11-22T19:38:16Z")
Active duty _officers_ in the U.S. military are definitely limited in what they can say about the President of the United States (and various other elected officials). [Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/888): > [@](#): > > Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785/48 "2018-11-23T16:30:39Z")
> [@robby](#): > > It’s interesting (to me, anyway) that the Air Force and the Navy track pretty closely, as do the Army and Marines. Apropos of nothing, I note that the USAF and USN have traditionally been more technical than the ground pounders, and [require higher ASVAB scores](https://www.thebalancecareers.com/minimum-required-asvab-scores-and-education-level-3332646) for their enlisted personnel. Way back in 1972 I volunteered to enlist in the Navy. First step was to go to the induction center in Philadelphia where _everybody_ regardless of branch goes to get injected, inspected, detected, infected, neglected and selected. After all the common stuff was finished the bunch of us were herded into a large room and after a few minutes a Spec-5 walked in. “Lissen up!” he said. “If you’re going into the Army, go there; Navy, there; Marines, there; and Air Force over there!” pointing to each of the four walls in turn. All of the freaky-looking people moved over to the Navy and Air Force spots. There my bunch was taken in charge by a Chief and we continued with the process. The draft was still on, then so some volunteers in the crowd may not have considered a military career ordinarily. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-going-after-mcraven/824785.md?page=2)