# Trump II, The Revenge of the Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 7, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608 "2020-02-07T23:40:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/81 "2020-02-11T23:01:46Z")
And in today’s vengeance news: Roger Stone is convicted of obstruction, lying to Congress, and general mopery. Prosecutors recommend a sentence of 7-9 years. The Attorney General’s office overrules the prosecutors’ and recommends a lesser sentence. [All four federal prosecutors assigned to the Stone case resign.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/doj-backpedalling-sentencing-recommendation-trump-ally-roger-stone-n1134961) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/82 "2020-02-11T23:10:46Z")
Remember when we had good Republicans like George W. Bush, who would never use their power to ensure their political henchmen escaped punishment? Ah, yes, the good old Republicans of yesteryear. It’s amazing how Trump is such a departure from Republican norms. Flabbergasting, really. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/83 "2020-02-11T23:23:20Z")
This is still not completely verified, though it does seem to fit the pattern Trump has established of punishing those who speak out against him: > **[Trump to Pull Elaine McCusker’s Nomination: Report | Law & Crime](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/trump-to-pull-nomination-of-pentagon-official-who-raised-concerns-about-ukraine-aid-hold-report/)** > > The White House is expected to withdraw its nominee for Pentagon Comptroller and Chief Financial Officer after discovering that Elaine McCusker resisted the administration’s order to withhold congressionally appropriated military aid to Ukraine. > [@](#): > > “This administration needs people who are committed to implementing the president’s agenda, specifically on foreign policy, and not trying to thwart it,” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/84 "2020-02-11T23:46:58Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > And in today’s vengeance news: > > Roger Stone is convicted of obstruction, lying to Congress, and general mopery. Prosecutors recommend a sentence of 7-9 years. > > The Attorney General’s office overrules the prosecutors’ and recommends a lesser sentence. > > [All four federal prosecutors assigned to the Stone case resign.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/doj-backpedalling-sentencing-recommendation-trump-ally-roger-stone-n1134961) He’s recreating the justice system so that it rewards his mafia members and punishes his enemies. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/85 "2020-02-11T23:50:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Re: mass arrests, that’s not the stage we’re at right now. > > If you’re building an authoritarian regime, your first order of business is neutralizing and wiping out your political rivals at the top. What Trump, Pompeo, and Barr intend to do is to drive into extinction the current civil service culture of faithful, neutral service to the public - that’s what they’re doing right as we speak. > > They’re purging the government of its critics in much the same way that Erdogan purged his enemies after taking power - the only difference is that he hasn’t actually cooked up charges and thrown them in jail, but don’t for a moment think I’m being hyperbolic when I say that Bill Barr is heading in that direction. This isn’t Asahi being chicken little; this is what we’re writing about in this thread. > > Don’t believe me? Then take a look at this: > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-ousts-vindman-and-sondland-punishing-key-impeachment-witnesses-in-post-acquittal-campaign-of-retribution/2020/02/07/dafbdb90-49be-11ea-bdbf-1dfb23249293\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-ousts-vindman-and-sondland-punishing-key-impeachment-witnesses-in-post-acquittal-campaign-of-retribution/2020/02/07/dafbdb90-49be-11ea-bdbf-1dfb23249293_story.html) > > Now let that sink in for a moment. The firings out of revenge and spit? Firings for not being enough of a yes man? Meh, that’s normal now. General Kelly. General Mattis. Tillerson. Sessions. This country made it normal when we just shrugged and accepted that this is Trump being Trump. > > But now we’re talking about firing someone who’s job is keeping government clean and accountable to the people. That’s a major step toward authoritarian rule and replacing the rule of law with the rule of men. Imagine for a moment the scenarios that can unfold if the bureaucratic culture of doing what you were hired to do for the public trust is replaced with doing whatever Trump needs you to do to make sure he crushes his political rivals. Imagine what the FBI looks like then. Imagine what the DoJ looks like then. Or DHS, or the US Marshal Service, or even the military. > > Will this be noticeable today, tomorrow, or next week? Maybe not, but rest assured: we’re on our way there right now as we speak. > > Right now, she has only the loss of her job and her career to worry about. In the future, the price will be much higher than that. And it looks like we’ll probably lose 4 more prosecutors before long. AFAIK, they just quit the Stone case and didn’t outright resign, but I’m guessing that they are not long for this justice department. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/86 "2020-02-12T00:23:53Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > And it looks like we’ll probably lose 4 more prosecutors before long. AFAIK, they just quit the Stone case and didn’t outright resign, but I’m guessing that they are not long for this justice department. “All four career prosecutors handling the case against Roger Stone, a confidant of President Trump, asked to withdraw from the legal proceedings Tuesday — and one quit his job entirely — after the Justice Department signaled it planned to reduce their sentencing recommendation for the president’s friend.” One completely quit, one resigned his position at the DC Attorney General office but will still work in the Baltimore Attorney General office. The other two, so far, only removed themselves from the case. How long before the three who didn’t outright quit are fired for some reason? ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/87 "2020-02-12T00:36:25Z")
“I stay out of things to a point people wouldn’t believe.” You’re right, Trump. People wouldn’t believe it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/88 "2020-02-12T03:35:10Z")
As I said, folks, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. This country is in deep, deep shit. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/89 "2020-02-12T05:27:32Z")
> **[White House withdraws nomination of ex-U.S. attorney Jessie Liu to Treasury post](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-withdraws-nomination-of-prosecutor-who-oversaw-cases-of-trump-associates/)** > > The White House has withdrawn the nomination of former U.S. Attorney Jessie Liu for a top post at the Treasury Department. She oversaw pros > [@](#): > > Liu was previously the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, where she oversaw the prosecutions of Trump associate Roger Stone, former national security adviser Michael Flynn and former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. So, she left her job as a US Attorney for the District of Columbia, where she was working on the Stone case, when she was nominated for a posting in the Treasury Department. And as soon as the sentencing guidelines were overturned, her nomination was canceled. Wow. > [@](#): > > Treasury officials believe Trump himself made the call to withdraw Liu because her confirmation hearing before the Senate Banking Committee was set for Thursday, and Trump was concerned she would be asked about the case, the person said. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/90 "2020-02-12T13:02:21Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > As I said, folks, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. We know. I mean, yes, you have been making a big show of bumping old threads to preen and gloat, but it’s clear your heart’s not in it. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/91 "2020-02-12T13:45:17Z")
My Trumper co-worker says that Trumps tweet and DOJ change in stance on the Stone sentencing is part of draining the swamp. He thinks those four AUSAs were part of some sort of bigger plan to stick it to Trump and his supporters. I hope the Judge can see through the BS and sentences Stone to substantial time. Trump would then be forced to pardon Stone or call the judge names. He’d probably do both. There is probably no real political risk to Trump at this point and I’m somewhat surprised he hasn’t already done so. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/92 "2020-02-12T13:48:34Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The Pledge is to the flag, symbol of our country and what it stands for, _not_ the individual who happens to be leading it at the moment, unlike [certain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_oath) [other](https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2012/01/03/thousands_of_north_koreans_pledge_their_loyalty_to_kim_jong_un.html) countries. Do you _really_ want the United States going own that path? I hate to say this because I’m sure I’ll be flamed to a crisp but I feel that over the last three years the racists and MAGA idiots have coopted the American flag so it’s starting to stand for something completely different than it used to. Whenever I see the flag on someone’s pickup truck or whatever, the first thing that pops into my head? “oh, a MAGA person”. It’s no longer “there is the symbol of my country”. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/93 "2020-02-12T14:00:21Z")
^^ Too true, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/94 "2020-02-12T14:05:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Did he, or did he not, serve at the pleasure of the President? The “President’s pleasure” is not usually without limit: [18 U.S. Code § 1513. Retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1513) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/95 "2020-02-12T14:09:31Z")
There you go, quoting a “law” again! What do you think this is, 2019? (Sorry to harp on this. That was my last such snarky comment. I don’t think it can be emphasized enough, however, what an important change we’re witnessing). ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/96 "2020-02-12T14:12:25Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > [White House withdraws nomination of ex-U.S. attorney Jessie Liu to Treasury post - CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-withdraws-nomination-of-prosecutor-who-oversaw-cases-of-trump-associates/) > > So, she left her job as a US Attorney for the District of Columbia, where she was working on the Stone case, when she was nominated for a posting in the Treasury Department. And as soon as the sentencing guidelines were overturned, her nomination was canceled. Wow. Some more background: [Trump withdraws Treasury nomination of former U.S. attorney for D.C. Jessie K. Liu after criticism of her oversight of Mueller prosecutions](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/trump-withdraws-treasury-nomination-of-former-us-attorney-for-dc-jessie-k-liu-after-criticism-of-her-oversight-of-mueller-prosecutions/2020/02/11/d700dc3c-4d3a-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html) > [@](#): > > Trump has been lobbied extensively against Liu by people who do not like her handling of the D.C. office — particularly as it relates to the Mueller probe, an administration official said. The decision to withdraw the nomination was made Tuesday afternoon, the official said. > > A second administration official confirmed Liu was notified at that time. > > A third person familiar with the situation — who like the others spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly— said Liu’s nomination was opposed vocally by Barbara Ledeen, a conservative operative and Republican Senate staffer unhappy about Flynn’s prosecution for lying to the FBI. > > _Ledeen’s husband co-wrote a book with Flynn and she was named in the Mueller report as a person Flynn contacted during Trump’s 2016 campaign to obtain Democratic rival Hillary Clinton’s private emails._ > > Speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the situation, the person said Ledeen had made little headway before the recent storm over Stone’s sentencing, calling it a turning point. Treasury officials believe Trump himself made the call to withdraw Liu because her confirmation hearing before the Senate Banking Committee was set for Thursday, and \*Trump was concerned she would be asked about the case, the person said. > \* > Liu had no role in Stone’s sentencing recommendation, having left office before it was sent to supervisors for approval, several people said. [my emphasis] So this may be about more than Stone’s sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/97 "2020-02-12T14:40:59Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > My Trumper co-worker says that Trumps tweet and DOJ change in stance on the Stone sentencing is part of draining the swamp. He thinks those four AUSAs were part of some sort of bigger plan to stick it to Trump and his supporters. I hope the Judge can see through the BS and sentences Stone to substantial time. Trump would then be forced to pardon Stone or call the judge names. He’d probably do both. There is probably no real political risk to Trump at this point and I’m somewhat surprised he hasn’t already done so. The mob boss is threatening judges now. “Let my enforcer off, or things may get rough for you”. We are back in prohibition times. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/98 "2020-02-12T14:47:19Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > I hate to say this because I’m sure I’ll be flamed to a crisp but I feel that over the last three years the racists and MAGA idiots have coopted the American flag so it’s starting to stand for something completely different than it used to. Whenever I see the flag on someone’s pickup truck or whatever, the first thing that pops into my head? “oh, a MAGA person”. It’s no longer “there is the symbol of my country”. I completely agree. I will happily fly the flag when Trump is out of office and the Stars and Stripes once again represents the USA. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/99 "2020-02-12T15:16:41Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > I hate to say this because I’m sure I’ll be flamed to a crisp but I feel that over the last three years the racists and MAGA idiots have coopted the American flag so it’s starting to stand for something completely different than it used to. Whenever I see the flag on someone’s pickup truck or whatever, the first thing that pops into my head? “oh, a MAGA person”. It’s no longer “there is the symbol of my country”. In my neck of the woods, in addition to the flag there is almost always another piece of propaganda attached to the vehicle to help fill in my impression of the owner. Molon Labe, Trump, American Redoubt, gun or hunting stickers, Gadsden flag, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608/100 "2020-02-12T15:29:44Z")
Back in 2016 I remember the Chicago Tribune’s John Kass raising a stink about the “tarmac meeting” with AG Loretta Lynch during which he supposedly warned her to back off the Hillary email investigation. Yes, I thought at the time, that does seem inappropriate. But now that a sitting president is openly conducting mass retributions – which are a far more obvious and blatant warning against anyone else who might investigate or even criticize him or his cronies – there’s complete silence from Kass. Utter IOKIARDI. The right has zero credibility anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ii-the-revenge-of-the-trump/847608.md?page=6)