# Trump Impeachment II: Insurrection Boogaloo **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 8, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463 "2021-02-08T18:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/581 "2021-02-13T18:11:19Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Mitch McConnell…you’re a pussy. [![](https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/zbtoql/picture249158455/alternates/FREE_1140/0211-siers-cartoon.jpg) ](https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/zbtoql/picture249158455/alternates/FREE_1140/0211-siers-cartoon.jpg) “Chicken” is not a filter on their zoom. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/582 "2021-02-13T18:16:03Z")
Huh. Looks like Democrats won the witness vote… and then immediately caved. The trial will end today. This is especially infuriating given how many activists invested blood, sweat, and tears to claw out hard-fought upsets in places like Georgia and Arizona. If these goobers in the national Democatic party have no intention of governing like a majority, especially at a pivotal juncture like this, why should anybody vote for them again? I really don’t appreciate them wasting my vote like this, and it makes me more likely to stay home next time. Don’t tell me you’re going to be the responsible adults and then cater to the aggrieved toddlers. That’s worse than doing nothing. I invested a bit of effort trying to puzzle through what the Dems expected to accomplish with a moot impeachment process. I came up with some pretty good reasons, but guess now I have my real answer: zip, zilch, nada. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/583 "2021-02-13T18:24:08Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > No one can ever force trump to do anything. That should be clear by now. A whole lot of people just forced him to stop being POTUS. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Mitch already leaked this morning that he’s voting to acquit Anybody have lots and lots of confidence in Mitch’s word? He’ll vote for the side he thinks his bread is buttered on at whatever moment they hold the vote. He was waiting until he thought he knew the answer. > [@Shoeless](#): > > the reason the GOP wants to call Pelosi is due to the persistent claim that _she_ was responsible for the lack of manpower to guard the Capitol on Jan 6. I suspect that if they do call Pelosi they’ll wish they hadn’t. But I suspect that they won’t call Pelosi, because I suspect that they know this. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Looks like Democrats won the witness vote… and then immediately caved. The trial will end today. Yeah. I don’t understand why. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/584 "2021-02-13T18:25:06Z")
In hindsight, I would’ve had 3 separate counts in the impeachment: (1) incitement, (2) pressuring Georgia to commit election fraud (which I believe is mentioned in passing, in the actual impeachment count) and (3) dereliction of duty in not stopping the riot. Incitement is tough – you have to establish intent and get by the 1st Amendment hurdle. But the other 2 would be slam dunks, especially with Herrra-Butler/McCarthy’s testimony on the 3rd. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/585 "2021-02-13T18:26:07Z")
I think the best explanation for the Democrats ending today is that they saw no chance at getting any more Republicans, and want to move onto other things. I think it’s a mistake, but there’s no way to know for sure. I do sympathize with the position that the most important thing the Democrats can do is to try and focus on ‘22 by doing everything possible to make Americans’ lives better. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/586 "2021-02-13T18:27:16Z")
Probably because if they call witnesses, then there’s pressure to allow the other side to call theirs, which could extend the trial indefinitely, which they probably don’t want to do. As HMS\_Irruncible said, it’s not clear what they thought impeachment would actually achieve. I guess what it means in political terms is that Democrats wanted to have another impeachment vote for the record, but that their heart wasn’t really into another full-on trial and I can’t say I blame them. With the 'rona still very much a part of the near future, with unemployment pretty high, they’re the ones on the hook if things don’t get turned around. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/587 "2021-02-13T18:27:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the best explanation for the Democrats ending today is that they saw no chance at getting any more Republicans, and want to move onto other things. Yeah, they want to get on with the business of undoing the unpresidential crap from the past four years. Closing Gitmo, for example. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/588 "2021-02-13T18:31:02Z")
Which they will fail to do any of, because they never succeed at doing anything other than being played by the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/589 "2021-02-13T18:35:21Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Give me the name of one individual currently serving in either house of Congress in any party who has the balls to issue a subpoena on trump. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Pelosi. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Looks like Democrats won the witness vote… and then immediately caved. The trial will end today. @DrDeth, you were saying? > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > A whole lot of people just forced him to stop being POTUS. Forcing someone to DO something is not even close to the same thing as preventing them from continuing to BE something. > [@asahi](#): > > Probably because if they call witnesses, then there’s pressure to allow the other side to call theirs, which could extend the trial indefinitely, which they probably don’t want to do. This. It would just keep the hamster wheel turning for many days or, God forbid, weeks. The outcome is certain, the Dems got a bunch of stuff on the record, the Pubbies don’t give a rat’s ass about truth or what really happened. When Mitch said he would vote to acquit, the game was over. Done. Move on. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/590 "2021-02-13T18:44:56Z")
Just to be clear, I want no end of bad things to happen to Trump and his enablers. But I also want the Dems to be smart in how they apply their resources and try to affect the public attention. This impeachment - like just about everything in the political arena and much in the legal arena - has multiple goals. One - of course - is punishment, assigning responsibility, holding people accountable - as well as deterrence. But you are naive if you presume that you will get your desired results from litigation - especially one as political as impeachment. So you have to consider how far impeachment will advance your other goals - or whether other actions could better advance your overall agenda. If it appears clear that acquittal will be the result, I see a real possibility SOME rational people will question spending more time and effort in an effort which is doomed to fail. And if the Dems are not trying to get a conviction - what exactly ARE they trying to accomplish? Are Dems trying to create a foundation for bipartisanship on at least some issues? Or do they want to scorch the earth and see what they can jam through for the next 2 years w/ 50 + 1? My personal thought is that the impeachment should proceed far enough to create enough clear political ammo to use against the Repubs in the future, and possibly to uncover material that can be used against Trump et al in other litigation, damage his personal future, etc. I suspect we may have already reached that point. The public has a very limited attention span, and I fear the possibility of diminishing marginal returns. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/591 "2021-02-13T18:50:28Z")
When the two sides agreed to allow Hererra-Butler’s notes into the record, it sounded like there was a bunch of other stuff that both sides agreed to admit, but it’s hard to understand Leahy’s mumbling most of the time. What was all the other stuff agreed to and why was H-B’s note the only thing they read into the record? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/592 "2021-02-13T19:17:23Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > So you have to consider how far impeachment will advance your other goals - or whether other actions could better advance your overall agenda. If it appears clear that acquittal will be the result, I see a real possibility SOME rational people will question spending more time and effort in an effort which is doomed to fail. And if the Dems are not trying to get a conviction - what exactly ARE they trying to accomplish? In this case, absolutely destroying the reputation of the Republican Party. Even given what we already knew, the news of the McCarthy call was a real shocker - the proverbial smoking gun, if it held up under testimony. Which they damn well should have had, from anyone either directly familiar with the call, or with what McCarthy said shortly afterwards. If you’ve already gone this far, you want to make the most of this moment. This is like kicking a field goal with first and goal from the 1 yard line when their best defenders suddenly fainted dead away and had to be sent to the hospital. You want to get the exact time of this call - surely obtainable from White House phone records, which are now in President Biden’s control - and nail down what McCarthy told Trump about the situation, and how Trump responded, just to drive the point home of Trump’s dereliction of duty that afternoon. This should have been the big news not just today and tomorrow, but into the week, to drag out the point of how craven the Republicans have to be, to still not convict Trump. Instead, the story tomorrow will be that it’s all wrapped up, the GOP voted to acquit, and the McCarthy call will be below the fold, and by Monday, it’ll be entirely swept under the rug. Absolutely disastrous politics. ETA: Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, and still more fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/593 "2021-02-13T19:26:25Z")
If we don’t have time to investigate how one branch of government launched a violent attack on another, then why should anyone take the U.S. seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/594 "2021-02-13T19:29:31Z")
Senate dems caved. Ford was Nixon’s getaway car. Trump is going to be acquitted without saying a word. What a joke. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/595 "2021-02-13T19:32:48Z")
The hyperbole here is a bit ridiculous. I think it was the wrong move, but maybe they had good reasons that we just don’t know about yet. Maybe they’ll turn out to be right. I don’t know. But already this Democratic party looks very, very different than the 2009 version, and in very good ways so far. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/596 "2021-02-13T19:35:31Z")
I really don’t get all this outrage over the witness decision. Democrats were not going to persuade any Republicans to change their vote to acquit, no matter how much evidence was presented. They stood to waste a lot of time and potentially muddy their already very clear presentation. They were able to get the testimony they wanted into the record for historical accuracy by way of stipulation. It is there as surely – and perhaps more surely – as if the witnesses had actually testified. They can move on to the important business of getting the country back on the correct track and not risk the potential disaster(s) of putting adverse witnesses in front of a bunch of Republicans who would eagerly work to muddy the waters of a strong presentation by House managers. Nothing about live witness testimony was going to change anything about the outcome of this sham “trial.” Why pretend otherwise? This is the best it gets. > **[Poll: Most Americans think Trump at least partially responsible for Capitol...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-poll/poll-most-americans-think-trump-at-least-partially-responsible-for-capitol-attack-idUSKBN2AD0LH?il=0)** > > Seventy-one percent of American adults, including nearly half of all Republicans, believe former President Donald Trump was at least partially responsible for starting the deadly Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol, according to an Ipsos poll... ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/597 "2021-02-13T19:36:29Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If these goobers in the national Democatic party have no intention of governing like a majority, especially at a pivotal juncture like this, why should anybody vote for them again? I really don’t appreciate them wasting my vote like this, and it makes me more likely to stay home next time. Don’t tell me you’re going to be the responsible adults and then cater to the aggrieved toddlers. The Dems needed 17 GOP senators. Those weasels made it clear the Dems werent going to get them. So, this isnt on the Dems, that’s ridiculous. The blame falls squarely on the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/598 "2021-02-13T19:46:41Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > In this case, absolutely destroying the reputation of the Republican Party. Even given what we already knew, the news of the McCarthy call was a real shocker - the proverbial smoking gun, if it held up under testimony. Which they damn well should have had, from anyone either directly familiar with the call, or with what McCarthy said shortly afterwards. Yeah - I think information about who provided what info to the White House when, and what was (or wasn’t) done in response, ought to be developed/publicized. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/599 "2021-02-13T19:47:04Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > As HMS\_Irruncible said, it’s not clear what they thought impeachment would actually achieve. I guess what it means in political terms is that Democrats wanted to have another impeachment vote for the record, but that their heart wasn’t really into another full-on trial and I can’t say I blame them. When the Dems started the process, it was still possible there was enough outrage that 17 GOP senators would do the Right Thing. Now, they have made it clear they wont. what with Cruz and co actively assisting the defense and others doodling and yawning, not to mention their public statements, like Moscow Mitch saying he would acquit. Mitch could certainly get 17 Republicans to vote for guilty. It would be better for the Republican party. But Mitch doesnt care what is best for the Republican party or even the American nation- he only cares what is best for Numero Uno. Mitch and others were likely being busy with polls focus groups, and computer simulations to see how badly the MAGA morons could hurt them during their next election. Yes, as mentioned before, this is a classic prisoners dilemma. If they all did it, trump and his army couldnt hurt them. But if only a couple caved and Did the Right Thing, the $ would go to them being primaried out and the death threats would start. Look at Cheney, Bill Cassidy,Peter Meijer and more, they were all censured and attacked for doing the right thing. Death threats too: > **[Republicans who voted for Trump’s impeachment receiving death threats](https://www.timesofisrael.com/republicans-who-voted-for-trumps-impeachment-receiving-death-threats/)** > > 10 House lawmakers who joined Democrats now stepping up personal security, wearing body armor; 'Our expectation is that someone may try to kill us,' says Peter Meijer of Michigan _The ten Republican lawmakers who joined House Democrats in voting to impeach US President Donald Trump have reportedly been receiving death threats from Trump supporters livid over their abandonment of the president following last week’s Capitol insurrection._ ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463/600 "2021-02-13T19:48:28Z")
Good heavens, this defence lawyer. So very trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-impeachment-ii-insurrection-boogaloo/932463.md?page=31)