# Trump indicted **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 30, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904 "2023-03-30T22:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/732 "2023-04-05T00:26:07Z")
I had to step away, and just able to respond. It’s not clear what the “other crimes” are. Not explicitly at least. Trump was charged with just one crime (34 times). Having had some time to think about it, the “other crime” is almost certainly federal/non-NY state law. This is just a deduction. If the “other crime” was NY state law, then why was it not also charged? If it was NY and not charged, that ain’t good. It’s likely because they can’t charge it (because it’s a federal crime). However, I’ll wait for some legal eagles I trust to weigh in and see what they say (or read the rest of the thread to see if it’s been addressed, ha!). ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/733 "2023-04-05T00:28:14Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Trump’s lawyers referred to him as “president” Trump. Rudy does a segment on WABC and is referred to like this “Up next… the Mayor of New York City”. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/734 "2023-04-05T00:29:41Z")
From what I understand the fraudulent business entries were committed in tandem with criminal acts. Those being tax fraud and election fraud. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/735 "2023-04-05T00:34:37Z")
Trump is speaking now; MSNBC says that if he says anything that’s true and newsworthy, they’ll let us know. Is anyone watching him on another network? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/736 "2023-04-05T00:36:45Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > It’s not clear what the “other crimes” are. Not explicitly at least. I believe Bragg spoke about it at his press conference > [@](#): > > …The participant scheme was illegal. The scheme violated New York election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means. The $130,000 wire payment exceeded the federal campaign contribution cap, and the false statements in AMIs books violated New York law. That is why Mr. Trump made false statements about his payments to Mr. Cohen… > > And in order to get Michael Cohen his money back, they planned one last false statement. In order to complete the scheme, they planned to mischaracterize the repayments to Mr. Cohen as income to the New York State tax authorities. The conduct I just described, and that which was charged by the grand jury, is felony criminal conduct in New York State. > **[Manhattan DA outlines charges against Trump](https://news.yahoo.com/manhattan-da-outlines-charges-against-205621035.html)** > > At a press conference on Tuesday, Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg explained the criminal charges against former President Donald Trump, who was arraigned earlier in the day. Trump, the first former president ever charged with a crime, pleaded... ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/737 "2023-04-05T00:40:09Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Is anyone watching him on another network? He’s on CNN right now. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/738 "2023-04-05T00:46:11Z")
Thanks. I hadn’t seen that. It definitely makes it clear it’s NY law. But now I just wonder, if Trump violated those NY laws, why not charge them? It’s possible Trump didn’t violate them but just participated in some fashion and that’s enough to get the bump to felony for the misdemeanor business falsification law he was charged with. This is kinda confusing. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/739 "2023-04-05T00:47:16Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > If I were the judge I would remind them that the proper protocol indicates that only the sitting president can be addressed by that title. By tradition, in the U.S., our presidents gets the honorific for life. [Example:](https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/james-carter/) > [@](#): > > The biography for President Carter and past presidents is courtesy of the White House Historical Association. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/740 "2023-04-05T00:54:45Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > But now I just wonder, if Trump violated those NY laws, why not charge them? It’s possible Trump didn’t violate them but just participated in some fashion and that’s enough to get the bump to felony for the misdemeanor business falsification law he was charged with. Maybe. Bragg and his team must has carefully considered all this. While careful consideration doesn’t guarantee a mistake-free conclusion, I wouldn’t rush to the conclusion Bragg messed up. I’m also wondering about whether Cohen overpaid his NY taxes by declaring reimbursed expenses to be income. That was done as part of what looks to me to be — maybe not in a legal sense, but in the meaning of the word — a conspiracy. But — if I am right about the overpayment — is doing that illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/741 "2023-04-05T00:54:58Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > But now I just wonder, if Trump violated those NY laws, why not charge them? It’s possible Trump didn’t violate them but just participated in some fashion and that’s enough to get the bump to felony for the misdemeanor business falsification law he was charged with. The best way to answer this question is to read the standard jury instructions for the charge, which will explain what the prosecutor has to prove, but I’m struggling to find them online. Can anybody else go all Sherlock Holmes on this? ETA: here’s the link, but I’m not successful with the download on my phone. > **[CRIMINAL JURY INSTRUCTIONS](https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/175/art175hp.shtml)** > > The official home page of the New York State Unified Court System. We hear more than three million cases a year involving almost every type of endeavor. We hear family matters, personal injury claims, commercial disputes, trust and estates issues,... ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/742 "2023-04-05T01:00:34Z")
Hmmm. I distinctly recall hearing that, because at the office of the presidency is unique – there’s only one at a time, ever – only the sitting president holds the title. Former presidents are referred to as “former”, or by their last office – Governor Carter, Senator Obama. But this is hijack for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ssounder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@Ssounder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssounder)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/743 "2023-04-05T01:01:01Z")
IMO, Trump is getting too much free publicity with his rambling speech. He picked the Prime Time hour to spew his blather. Reminiscent of 2015-2016 when many news outlets kept him in the spotlight and resulted in sucking up all of the oxygen in the room. A clever trick, but one would hope the networks would be savvy enough to stop this. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/744 "2023-04-05T01:01:26Z")
Good response. Just want to make clear I don’t think Bragg messed up or anything like that. I’m just thinking this through out loud is all to understand it. I do think, legally, to get the felony bump, it is uncharted and is open to dismissal/proper appeal. I don’t think it’s a mistake to charge it, just difficult. I mean, Bragg has 34 slam dunk misdemeanors. I personally don’t think a misdemeanor is worth all this though. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/745 "2023-04-05T01:02:35Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Does the DA need to prove the felonies he’s not charging? MSNBC says no. It’s enough that Trump intended to accomplish something that would be felonious, whether or not he accomplished it. So no, the felony does not have to be proven. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/746 "2023-04-05T01:33:22Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Even better, the amount of money he’s having to spend on lawyers has got to be staggering. IOU’s written on a cocktail napkin don’t really cost that much when you don’t pay. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/747 "2023-04-05T01:49:44Z")
I haven’t seen any crowd estimates of pro or anti-Trump demonstrators. I did see a video of MTG getting heckled out of town with some superb stereo-typical NYC language. I wonder if Trump was expecting throngs of adoring fans. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/748 "2023-04-05T01:58:32Z")
From what I saw. During the trip away from the court house all he saw was Anti Trump signs. That’s gotta hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/749 "2023-04-05T02:07:46Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > I wonder if Trump was expecting throngs of adoring fans. I doubt it. He’s spent the better part of a decade doing rallies. He knows where his fans are and he knows NYC ain’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/750 "2023-04-05T02:17:12Z")
They should gag the whole fucking family. If they just gag PAB, he’ll just post through one of his spawn. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904/751 "2023-04-05T02:31:38Z")
Not only did trump do his usual festivus complaining, he gave Jack smith’s document case a bit more ammo… The judge gave trump a warning that if he acts out in court the trail can be held without him in the room. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-indicted/981904.md?page=38)