# Trump is a threat to our nation, and those who are not actively opposing him are traitors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744 "2018-09-04T15:53:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/81 "2018-09-04T21:45:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Your condition is appropriate but vastly overoptimistic. There are over 60 million voters who \*would \*back such a candidate, as we know from recent evidence. The risk to American democracy isn’t from Trump himself, but from the kind of people who are willing to vote for a candidate like him. **Please don’t kid yourself that he’ll be the last.** (bolding mine) That is the tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/82 "2018-09-04T21:49:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I thought Trump Derangement Syndrome was the term applied to people like **SA** and **octopus** who actually think Trump is doing a decent, or even good, job. > > For example, “Of course Mexico will pay for the wall!” That’s just a psychotic break with reality right there, caused by Trump. You thought wrong. > **[Urban Dictionary: Trump Derangement Syndrome](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trump%20Derangement%20Syndrome)** > > A diagnosable medical condition in which the afflicted blindly follows Donald Trump, a.k.a. "The Chosen One." The afflicted is incapable of free thought, unable to critically evaluate the actions or any criticism of "Dear Leader," or otherwise... ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/83 "2018-09-04T21:51:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I doubt that it’s occurred to anyone here that the prospect of such occurrences is why many people voted for Trump, and not the “racism” that you people are always on about. Under the previous adminsitation, the stock market was going up, and unemployment going down. > [@](#): > > Or they voted for him because they thought he would “shake things up” and “tell it like it is,” which he has also been doing? Well, as things were on the right track, then shaking them up would put them on a different track. Shaking things up is not the something as continuing to improve the economy as it has been doing over the last decade. > [@](#): > > I saw a blurb on Facebook recently by a pro-Trump group who asked, _“Have the last four presidents even been trying?”_. Clinton we had record stock market and low unemployment. Obama, we had record stock market and low unemployment. Under both bushes we had recessions. So, yeah, maybe 2 out of 4. > [@](#): > > I didn’t vote for Trump, but the impression among his supporters is that he’s gotten a lot done in a very short period of time, and with virtually everyone against him. They have that impression, because they are listening to news sources that lie to them and tell them these things. Other than the number of golf outings he has gone on, he has gotten very little done compared to most presidents in their second year. > [@](#): > > in my estimation racism is waaay down on the list of why people voted for him. But you do agree that it is a reason, right? At least there’s progress. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/84 "2018-09-04T21:56:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is explicitly NOT what the OP is claiming. In response to **F-P’s** comment: > [@](#): > > I agree that Trump is a threat to the nation, but that doesn’t imply that his supporters (let alone those who merely don’t actively oppose him) are traitors. They may simply disagree on whether or to what extent he’s a threat to the nation. the OP asked: > [@](#): > > How big a threat does he have to be before allowing him to remain in office to get some judges and tax cuts becomes an act of disloyalty to America? How else would you interpret his comment, if not as I characterized it? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/85 "2018-09-04T22:12:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You thought wrong. > > [Urban Dictionary: Trump Derangement Syndrome](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TRUMP%20DERANGEMENT%20SYNDROME) Not only do you link to urban dictionary as an authoritative cite, but you also do not notice that the same cite that you use, also makes exactly the opposite claim, if you bother to scroll down slightly. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/86 "2018-09-04T22:19:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > In response to **F-P’s** comment: > > the OP asked: > > How else would you interpret his comment, if not as I characterized it? The most obvious way to interpret it is that people are allowing him to get away with these acts that are dangerous and harmful to our country in exchange for getting tax cuts and pro-gun pro-life judges appointed. Why would you choose to characterize it in such a silly fashion as you have? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/87 "2018-09-04T22:20:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How else would you interpret his comment, if not as I characterized it? Holy fuck you’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/88 "2018-09-04T22:26:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You thought wrong. > > [Urban Dictionary: Trump Derangement Syndrome](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TRUMP%20DERANGEMENT%20SYNDROME) So no comment to your false accusations against me, or my questions about your usage of words like deranged? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/89 "2018-09-04T22:28:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How else would you interpret his comment, if not as I characterized it? The most straight forward reading is that the OP is criticizing the Republicans for allowing him to do such incredible harm to norms and institutions just because he is advancing conservative policy preferences in the judiciary and on taxes. Which is totally, totally different from your characterization – so different that I question how anyone could possibly read it as you did. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/90 "2018-09-04T22:29:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Not only do you link to urban dictionary as an authoritative cite, but you also do not notice that the same cite that you use, also makes exactly the opposite claim, if you bother to scroll down slightly. Definition 2 is an example of the same phenomenon that is demonstrated when the left tries to appropriate a term like snowflake. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/91 "2018-09-04T22:31:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > the impression among his supporters is that he’s gotten a lot done in a very short period of time Sure, but the problem is that this impression among his supporters is drastically inaccurate, unless “gotten a lot done” is interpreted as meaning mostly “pissed off non-Trump-supporters a whole lot” and “gotten a lot of attention”. By any other metric, Trump has **not** actually gotten a lot done, even by the standards of his own scattershot campaign promises rather than of actual constructive governance measures. The border wall that Mexico was going to pay for? The return of huge numbers of good blue-collar manufacturing and coal-mining jobs? Filling government positions with “the best people”? Improving the US position vis-a-vis international trade? Even locking up Hillary Clinton :rolleyes: ? Zip diddly. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/92 "2018-09-04T22:33:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Definition 2 is an example of the same phenomenon that is demonstrated when the left tries to appropriate a term like snowflake. And it is cited in exactly as an authoritative cite as the one you tried to pass off. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/93 "2018-09-04T22:37:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So no comment to your false accusations against me, or my questions about your usage of words like deranged? I stand by my assertion that calling those who support Trump a traitor OR advocating his assassination is a symptom of derangement. And your pushback against assassination as being undesirable due to a potential for martyrdom is remarkable only due to how weak it could be while still existing. This is what “reasonable” or “rational” discourse is nowadays. And I’m the so-called troll for pointing it out? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/94 "2018-09-04T22:38:38Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I don’t believe he is unimpeachable at all. And he is only as accurate as his sources, of course. > > But it’s not like we don’t have a lot of different kinds of evidence pointing to the same general conclusions here. The President is dumb and reckless and wholly incapable of being a responsible office-holder. He has done and is doing long-term damage to our country, and a whole bunch of politicians are protecting him because it is politically expedient for them to do so. Agreed, except that he’s merely MOSTLY incapable of being a responsible office-holder. I am generally pleased with his judicial picks. Beyond that, he’s not shining. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/95 "2018-09-04T22:41:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I doubt that it’s occurred to anyone here that the prospect of such occurrences is why many people voted for Trump, and not the “racism” that you people are always on about. I love the unintended humor in that quote. Considering the intellectual stature of the Trump voters that I’ve heard opining on the issues, I don’t know which is funnier: the thought of these intellectual giants carefully pondering which candidate will more wisely manage the complexities of the national and global economies, or the idea that the president that James Mattis assessed as having the knowledge of an average fifth-grader should be credited for their current condition. 😃 As for the racism, it’s impossible to know exactly how many of his supporters are deeply racist because, believe it or not, this is not the sort of thing that readily turns up in self-reported poll results. What we do know is that racists and white supremacists have been a vocal part of Trump’s base, they have constantly infested his rallies, he appeals to them in his speeches and tweets, and he notably and shamefully avoided criticism of them in his reprehensible speech after the events of Charlottesville. Kind of suggests a trend, no? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Or they voted for him because they thought he would “shake things up” and “tell it like it is,” which he has also been doing? Well, he’s “shaken things up” so far at least to the point that the office of the president and the United States itself have both lost a great deal of their prestige and diplomatic influence, especially on the international stage where this remarkable new president has managed to insult literally everyone and has become the universal butt of jokes. And he’s congenitally incapable of “telling it like it is” because he a congenital liar who lies every time he opens his mouth. He has certainly been telling “it” in ways that “it” has never been told before, but what he’s telling bears no relation whatsoever to what actually “is”. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/96 "2018-09-04T22:41:17Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The most obvious way to interpret it is that people are allowing him to get away with these acts that are dangerous and harmful to our country in exchange for getting tax cuts and pro-gun pro-life judges appointed. > > Why would you choose to characterize it in such a silly fashion as you have? [Silly is as silly does.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14724158#post14724158) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/97 "2018-09-04T22:42:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I stand by my assertion that calling those who support Trump a traitor OR advocating his assassination is a symptom of derangement. That’s not the post I challenged – you quoted my post, and a snippet from the OP, and called them deranged. What in the text you quoted (aside from the assassination talk) was deranged? > [@](#): > > And your pushback against assassination as being undesirable due to a potential for martyrdom is remarkable only due to how weak it could be while still existing. This is what “reasonable” or “rational” discourse is nowadays. And I’m the so-called troll for pointing it out? You’re the troll for making no effort in your posts, making false accusations against me (multiple times – this isn’t the first), refusing to acknowledge it, refusing to take back your false accusations, and doing nothing to actually engage on actual issues or discussion. Really sad. I thought you were a decent poster once. I don’t know what happened, but you’ve changed. And this is a choice you’ve made. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/98 "2018-09-04T22:46:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s not the post I challenged – you quoted my post, and a snippet from the OP, and called them deranged. What in the text you quoted (aside from the assassination talk) was deranged? > > You’re the troll for making no effort in your posts, making false accusations against me (multiple times – this isn’t the first), refusing to acknowledge it, refusing to take back your false accusations, and doing nothing to actually engage on actual issues or discussion. > > Really sad. I thought you were a decent poster once. I don’t know what happened, but you’ve changed. And this is a choice you’ve made. You endorsing the OP is you calling Trump and his supporters traitors. Words have meanings and traitor or treasonous are serious charges. It’s not trolling to assert that those who demonize with such a broad brush, the same broad brush you are quick to challenge if directed at nuts on the left, aren’t behaving rationally. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/99 "2018-09-04T22:47:53Z")
Can’t quote Octopus who has dibs on my left nut: “I stand by my assertion that calling those who support Trump a traitor OR advocating his assassination is a symptom of derangement.” So what the fuck do you say about a so called president who calls his own AG a traitor? God damn I was done responding to you, but your blatant stupidity was too much for me to bear. With any luck, I’ll have the strength to resist your trollery in the future. Dumbfuck. And fuck your “potty mouth” troll aint-I-cute bullshit, asshole. Have you heard your so called president’s potty fucking mouth? A good so called christian, ain’t he. Fuck off douchebag. And take my left nut with you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/100 "2018-09-04T22:50:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …Beyond that, he’s not shining. Whoa! Steady up, there, hoss! Don’t throw out the baby with the bong-water! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744.md?page=6)