# Trump is a threat to our nation, and those who are not actively opposing him are traitors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744 "2018-09-04T15:53:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/161 "2018-09-06T00:35:18Z")
I should add that I heard some former Bush admin official on NPR (maybe David Frum?) rightly pointed out that invoking the 25th Amendment or pursuing impeachment are specifically not Constitutional crises, contrary to what the fucking coward writer says. They are both specifically in the Constitution (duh). What is a constitutional crisis, according to Frum(?) is his own staff just ignoring him and working around him, literally removing documents from his desk before he can sign them, ignoring his direct orders, etc. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/162 "2018-09-06T00:37:40Z")
Frum is as ugly as a horned toads butthole, but damn if hasn’t been hitting them out of the park lately. Never would have believed it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/163 "2018-09-06T01:48:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its a moan of despair from a weak and watery heart, French call it a _cri de Coors_. saw it ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/164 "2018-09-06T08:21:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > To take women’s rights for example. Most Trump voters I’m sure support the idea of equal pay for equal work. Wouldn’t that begin by requiring them to accept that the immense majority of jobs can be held by people of any gender? Many of them don’t, buying into those “traditional gender roles” which got invented in the 19th and 20th centuries. When someone begins by not accepting that a man can be a primary school teacher or a woman can be CFO, “equal pay for equal work” becomes the kind of line that makes those of us who accept such radical ideas throw up a little. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/165 "2018-09-06T08:49:50Z")
Do you have any evidence that such attitudes predominate in conservative circles? I know quite a few people who are conservative in their beliefs and none of them would have the slightest objection to male primary school teachers or to women as CFO (or CEO for that matter. Until recently I was quite a fan of Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos, and I remain one of Sheryl Sandberg, despite our differing political ideologies). On the other hand, I have not been a fan of Marissa Mayer, not because she’s a woman but because I felt she was doing a poor job at Yahoo. ETA: I would add also that a great many of the country’s conservative voters are women themselves. This fact often seems to get overlooked in these sorts of discussions. In fact, the most passionate conservative posters whose comments show up on my Facebook feed are predominately women. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/166 "2018-09-06T10:18:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Do you have any evidence that such attitudes predominate in conservative circles? Well, [research studies have found strong correlation between support for Trump and sexist/misogynistic attitudes](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experimentations/201801/the-dark-connection-between-hostile-sexism-and-politics). > [@](#): > > Benevolent sexism is a paternalistic view in which women are seen as weak beings who need to be cherished and taken care of, analogous to children. This brand of sexism reduces empowerment and pushes women to the side in favor of stronger, tougher men who are charged with protecting the weak. Hostile sexism views women as the enemy of men and views women as waging a battle to wrest control from men through sex, trapping men in relationships, and through feminist politics. Both forms of sexism prevent women from advancement in multiple life areas, and both forms of sexism can be held by anyone, though men are more likely to be sexist on average. […] > > […] regardless of politics and gender, they found that both hostile sexism and benevolent sexism predicted more positive attitudes toward Trump. […] hostile sexism more than doubled the odds of voting for Trump. […] > > Trump voters were significantly higher in both hostile and benevolent sexism than Clinton voters. > > In terms of attitude toward minority groups, Trump voters were significantly less positive than Clinton voters, and Trump voters favored White people more than Clinton voters. Again, we’re left with the same conundrum I asked about before: if most Trump voters are intelligent, rational, principled, non-racist, non-sexist, non-homophobic, pro-civility, responsible and civic-minded, then why on earth would they find Trump appealing in the first place? If these conservatives are **not** in fact ideologically opposed to the fundamental achievements of liberal progress in the areas of equal rights, social justice, environmental protection etc., but are mostly just cheesed off about secondary issues of social decorum and civility, then what did they realistically imagine an anti-decorum, anti-civility lowlife like Trump would or could actually achieve for them as President? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/167 "2018-09-06T12:34:09Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > That op-ed and other things we hear about Trump’s thin-skinned nature make me think perhaps the best act of opposition would be laughing at him. An organized campaign of people literally pointing and laughing at him - in person, in videos, photos on social media. > > I can easily find the right mental space to transform any anger or disgust I feel at what’s happening right now and turn it into laughing at this pitiful man who’s out of his depth and in over his head. You just have to stop short of feeling sorry for him, which you’d do for many people, but not a leader in his position. > > We should all point and laugh at Trump. I can’t think of anything that would bother him more. Laugh at him not as someone who fell down a manhole, but as someone who was bragging about how much money he made selling of the manhole covers as he fell down a manhole. ---
**Author:** ![PitJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9bcb4/32.png) [@PitJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PitJ)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/168 "2018-09-06T12:58:01Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree with the last sentence. These people have actually met Trump :). > > For better or worse (mostly the latter, of course) Trump was legitimately elected, and as long as he’s here there’s no reason for any legislator to oppose legislation that he or she thinks will benefit the country just in the name of futile opposition to Trump. > > The only meaningful opposition is impeachment or 25th Amendment. I suppose if Woodward’s book spurs politicians into action on either of these fronts, that would be a positive. But I don’t know if that will happen (for a combination of technical and political reasons). My hope is that once the McConnell type slimy GOP lizards realize that with the tax reform done to further feed the 1% and SCOTUS firmly in conservative Hands, they don’t need their orange monkey in the WH anymore and dump him, latest after midterms. ---
**Author:** ![TheMightyFro](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themightyfro/32/20081_2.png) [@TheMightyFro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMightyFro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/169 "2018-09-06T16:11:36Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Yet another [book](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bob-woodwards-new-book-reveals-a-nervous-breakdown-of-trumps-presidency/2018/09/04/b27a389e-ac60-11e8-a8d7-0f63ab8b1370_story.html?utm_term=.5308eccc7a98)confirms the worst suspicions about Trump: he is a reckless idiot who is going to get lots of people killed eventually. We’ve only avoided bigger catastrophes because his aides literally trick him. I would go along with this line of thought, but for the fact this is America, and you’re allowed to support your own interests, and he is surely helping a small sub-section of the populace (rich folks). I’m more ashamed that he had no better competition during the election, even from conventional Republicans. That was the real political tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/170 "2018-09-07T15:32:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > “How big a threat” is virtually impossible to answer. How do you quantify that? Well, howzabout yet another war, declared or not? Or even the slightest hint that he wants to use the nuclear football? But regarding them as “traitors” depends on your point of view. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/171 "2018-09-07T15:35:26Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > serious question, not trying to be edgy: why doesn’t somebody just shoot him? The people around him seem to not just dislike him but think he’s dangerous. Surely plenty of his secret service think like that. There’s BUTTLOADS of people from all walks of life who think this way. He’s NEVER been in a room alone with one of them? > > I’m sure there’s metal detectors everywhere but there’s not a weighty bust in his office, a letter opener? > > Yeah you shouldn’t kill the president but my god, so many people probably even working in the white house think he’s this national/global threat and traitor how do you NOT kill the man? I don’t think we are at this stage YET. Better to do things the legal way anyway. If he wants to go nuclear, for example, the best response is for his aides to say “I’m sorry, but I can’t do that”. Then send for the security weenies and the nice men in white coats to take care of the offending party. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/172 "2018-09-07T15:38:39Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Not to mention that the idea of Trump as a pig-ignorant, laughably unqualified buffoon who’s prone to dishonesty, temper tantrums, rash and uninformed decisions, juvenile mockery and self-aggrandizing behavior is so completely at odds with what we do know about the man, right? Just call it what it is, Bob: fiction! Roman a clef? ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/173 "2018-09-07T15:52:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Agreed, basically. Where I would disagree at least somewhat is that all of these are things that started in 2016 with Trump. Where I more strongly disagree is that the US cannot or will not recover from Trump once he’s out of office. As long as we don’t elect another amateur who is nothing more than a marketing huckster, we should be back to the status quo ante fairly quickly. As yet it is hard to point to specific harm that Our Donald has done, or for me at least, but he is perpetuating and encouraging the trends that have weakened and divided America. \ And as for “another amateur who is nothing more than a marketing huckster”, well, that is what the electorate got in 2008 and every election since, and probably 2020 as well. Even if the USA magically gets a POTUS who tries to turn things around, the mess is so large that a recovery will be beyond the time in office of any incumbent. Many of the problems are in any case due a fundamental shift in the world away from the Cold war military, financial and political setup and the increasing development of a massively multi-polar world. It is just not possible to go back to some imagined Golden Age in, say, the 1950s. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/174 "2018-09-07T15:57:26Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > As yet it is hard to point to specific harm that Our Donald has done, or for me at least, but he is perpetuating and encouraging the trends that have weakened and divided America. Just off the top of my head: He has initiated what can now legitimately be called a trade war, and he has strengthen Russia’s hand against our traditional European allies. Both of those things can be reversed, but until they are, they are harming our country. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/175 "2018-09-07T16:08:53Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Nothing yet has happened to shake my belief that Trump has essentially no considered ideology of his own. He’s an authoritarian purely by personality - it suits his narcissism and he has always had the money to project and indulge it. Calling him a fascist is almost giving him too much credit. A minor change in circumstances and I have no problem believing Trump as a rather authoritarian Democrat. Agreed. Trump has no ideology beyond strident patriotism and making money. His political discourse is about at the level of a 12 year old (would MacArthur have something to say about that?) and his knowledge of political theory seems to be minimal. Don’t confuse this with any fascist-style methods he used, such as the stormtrumpers who got physical during the election run-up. In a way he is Reagan with an attitude, not actually doing much but making aggressive noises, whereas Ronnie got the benefit of the doubt by not expressing his decidedly right-wing views in other than very restrained terms. In many ways Trump seems to model himself on Mussolini, but almost certainly while knowing next to nothing about him. The chin up stance, the penchant for grandiose statements and bluster, softened by an inability to actually get much done. Trump’s desire to rebuild the American empire echoes Mussolini’s dreams of reviving the Roman empire, if he did but know, but he won’t until somebody does a sound bite for him. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/176 "2018-09-07T16:34:47Z")
We can’t envision the harm that has already been done to the USA by trump, because we are america and we think in very limited terms about our vulnerabilities. In this we are like little babies who have never been outside. The harm is in international relations, and internal issues, schisms that are exacerbated by russians and now trump, in an absoluteley seamless and logical manner. For our purposes trump and russia are functionally the same. How many weeks or months of that before we are harmed? It started right away. No delay. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/177 "2018-09-07T18:00:02Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > Agreed. Trump has no ideology beyond strident patriotism and making money… Trump is as patriotic as my asshole is. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/178 "2018-09-07T18:08:08Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’m not a huge fan of the two party system. I think it’s dumb and overly coarse. But I think a one party system is even worse. That said, political parties in the US, at least for the big two are coalition parties. So each half is actually relatively diverse. Places like India and Japan are virtually one party systems, ruled most of the time by the dominant Congress Party and the LDP respectively… The political fighting goes into getting to the top of the respective parties, which tends to perpetuate an insider mentality. The USA has never had a viable third party to challenge the two party cartel, and this is increasingly a problem, as the two parties are perceived as being very similar under the skin. Rightly so, in many ways. But part of the problem may be yet to come, if either party implodes or splits down the middle. Trump could wreck the Republican Party, while the Democrats are desperately trying to reinvent themselves and find a passable presidential candidate as well. To my mind, they are failing miserably at both. The alternative is provided by places like the Netherlands, with 5 parties each having about 20% of the vote. The result is is a succession of relatively fragile coalitions. But it is also possible for mainstream parties to shrink dramatically and suddenly. A historical example is the British Liberal party, which was replaced by the up and coming Labour party. In several European countries there is a current trend where the mainstream left of center and right of center parties are shrinking fast, being replaced by protest parties on the far left and far right and to some extent, special interest parties. This could happen in the USA, but whether that wold lead to a viable and sizeable third party is debatable. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/179 "2018-09-07T21:34:54Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I should add that I heard some former Bush admin official on NPR (maybe David Frum?) rightly pointed out that invoking the 25th Amendment or pursuing impeachment are specifically not Constitutional crises, contrary to what the fucking coward writer says. They are both specifically in the Constitution (duh). > > What is a constitutional crisis, according to Frum(?) is his own staff just ignoring him and working around him, literally removing documents from his desk before he can sign them, ignoring his direct orders, etc. This isn’t a constitutional crisis either; it’s more like mischief. I seriously doubt it’s the first time that an aide has found ways to subvert the president or congressman he’s working for. The constitutional crisis is Republicans enabling and encouraging the president to abuse his powers under the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744/180 "2018-09-07T23:33:25Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > We can’t envision the harm that has already been done to the USA by trump, because we are america and we think in very limited terms about our vulnerabilities. In this we are like little babies who have never been outside. > > The harm is in international relations, and internal issues, schisms that are exacerbated by russians and now trump, in an absoluteley seamless and logical manner. For our purposes trump and russia are functionally the same. How many weeks or months of that before we are harmed? It started right away. No delay. Here’s some harm that could be headed our way. [Did you _see_ ‘Contagion’?](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/health/china-flu-virus-samples.html) Well, that’s just fucking awesome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-a-threat-to-our-nation-and-those-who-are-not-actively-opposing-him-are-traitors/820744.md?page=10)