# Trump is an atheist. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 6, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690 "2018-12-06T17:39:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/81 "2018-12-08T17:56:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Maybe, there is controversy on this. > [Karl Rove and the politics of religion...... | News & Reporting | Christianity Today](https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2008/february/karl-rove-and-politics-of-religion.html) > _But last night Rove told me he is in fact a religious person, though he didn’t specify how his Christian roots manifest themselves in his life._ You just made my day. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/82 "2018-12-08T18:05:45Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > On ‘belief structure’ that just shifts the ambiguity to what that means rather than what ‘atheist’ means. In practical terms I’d distinguish in every day (internet, fortunately rarely in real life) experience people who tell me I’m stupid for believing in ‘my imaginary friend’ they are _sure_ does not exist, v people who simply don’t believe in anything in this regard. > > And the idea that people of any of these variations are strictly more virtuous than others is about equally ridiculous coming from people anywhere on the spectrum IMO. Though again noting that getting up in other people’s faces about their personal beliefs in this respect is obnoxious. I’m giving the example of people I know are ‘positive atheists’ because of their bragging about it. I’m not saying that less obnoxious people don’t have the same positive disbelief, which of course they are entitled to, but I don’t see it. And again in real life the people I deal with are rarely obnoxious this way like on the internet (I live in a very ‘blue’ area, so it’s not that I deal only with religious people). Saying that atheism doesn’t have a belief system doesn’t sat that a particular atheist doesn’t have a belief system. And it says nothing about how obnoxious or nice a particular atheist is. Same goes for religious people. I’ve known Christians who would never dream of telling me my soul was in danger and Christians who were sure I was going right to hell. The reason atheists are more open on message boards is that we don’t have to worry about our religious brethren ostracizing us. Plus, it is amusing how a message you would see on many church signs without thinking twice becomes obnoxious when an atheist says it. Think of the bus ads in London Dawkins helped to sponsor. I’m a strong atheist in that I believe that no god exists (though I don’t claim to know it.) But I won’t read a weak atheist out of atheism. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/83 "2018-12-08T18:17:02Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You just made my day. Well, Rove is so evil that if he stepped into a church he’d burst into flame anyway. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/84 "2018-12-08T19:21:25Z")
Y’know people, can’t Donals be just a bad, lousy, lame excuse for a believer? I mean, in this thread it looks like a serious excluded middle between intense, open, commited piety and “oh he must be an atheist just putting on an act”, being applied to two presidents here. To me, Trump seems to be like millions of other people, someone who was brought up in a church because his parents made him go, but who as an adult feels as long as he’s not making a living off of actual murder he’s doing all he’s obligated to by making sure his family is in a position to prosper. As someone else put it, he comports himself as a visitor, not a participant, at services. Meanwhile, OTOH the way some people seem to desperately crave for Obama to be atheist… come the Hell on, whatever happened to taking people on their word for what they identify as? I mean, sure, if you want to accuse him of being just as much or even more of a means-to-an-end manipulative phony, go right ahead just don’t say _“but I’ll grant his case justifies it!”_ Strictly speaking Trump’s mere “yeah-whatever satisfies the base” indifferentism would not be nearly as hypocritical as Obama earnestly faking involvement with the Black church for advancement’s sake, and some people would like that just fine as a takedown. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/85 "2018-12-08T20:16:38Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Trump strikes me as the kind of person who certainly could be an atheist just because he woke up one morning and decided he was. That still requires wondering about yourself. Trump doesn’t wonder about anything, beyond maybe the size of some blonde’s tits. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/86 "2018-12-08T22:33:40Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > …I think you find this thread or something in my OP objectionable, am I right? > I’m getting the feeling that I’m missing something, either about you or about me, but whatever it is, it’s going over my head. I’ve developed some strange and sometimes irritating (to others) habits in learning how to manage an untrustworthy brain. One thing in particular I’ve learned is that I can easily misread the intent behind written words and go straight into attack mode when there was absolutely no offence offered. It’s an unfortunate instinct because I really hate when people read things I write with the least generous interpretation possible. So rather than bite right away I seek clarification. Your OP, for instance, reads to me as an equation of atheism with biblical ignorance and propensity toward sinfulness. As an atheist who is neither wholly ignorant of the text nor a particularly nasty person I am still uneasy with that premise. But I know no other way to suss the intent of the words you chose. So if I am being generous, I’d say you’re missing that knowledge about me: why I insist on clarity. My instinct, however, is to believe your OP overly smarmy and your continued resistance to clarify your point as disingenuousness. It’s becoming, for me, an amusing little game to decide what I think you’re on about here. Clearly, the problem rests with me because nobody else is perceiving bullshit to call you out on. I can live with that. I spend a fair bit of time confused by people. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/87 "2018-12-08T22:36:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Y’know people, can’t Donals be just a bad, lousy, lame excuse for a believer? That makes the most sense. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/88 "2018-12-09T00:23:10Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > On ‘belief structure’ that just shifts the ambiguity to what that means rather than what ‘atheist’ means. In practical terms I’d distinguish in every day (internet, fortunately rarely in real life) experience people who tell me I’m stupid for believing in ‘my imaginary friend’ they are _sure_ does not exist, v people who simply don’t believe in anything in this regard. > > And the idea that people of any of these variations are strictly more virtuous than others is about equally ridiculous coming from people anywhere on the spectrum IMO. Though again noting that getting up in other people’s faces about their personal beliefs in this respect is obnoxious. I’m giving the example of people I know are ‘positive atheists’ because of their bragging about it. I’m not saying that less obnoxious people don’t have the same positive disbelief, which of course they are entitled to, but I don’t see it. And again in real life the people I deal with are rarely obnoxious this way like on the internet (I live in a very ‘blue’ area, so it’s not that I deal only with religious people). Atheists, or non-theists, are as varied in their own interpretation of the whole thing, and their reasons for it, as are believers. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/89 "2018-12-09T00:57:41Z")
I believe it was St. Anselm who said, “God is that than which nothing greater can be imagined.” I suspect that for ol’ Donald, nothing greater than himself can be imagined. Therefore, restricting the universe of discourse to Trump and possibly God, it’s clear that Trump believes in God, God being himself, and therefore neither Trump nor God qualify as atheists. QED. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/90 "2018-12-09T01:34:04Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I’ve developed some strange and sometimes irritating (to others) habits in learning how to manage an untrustworthy brain. One thing in particular I’ve learned is that I can easily misread the intent behind written words and go straight into attack mode when there was absolutely no offence offered. It’s an unfortunate instinct because I really hate when people read things I write with the least generous interpretation possible. So rather than bite right away I seek clarification. Your OP, for instance, reads to me as an equation of atheism with biblical ignorance and propensity toward sinfulness. As an atheist who is neither wholly ignorant of the text nor a particularly nasty person I am still uneasy with that premise. But I know no other way to suss the intent of the words you chose. > > So if I am being generous, I’d say you’re missing that knowledge about me: why I insist on clarity. My instinct, however, is to believe your OP overly smarmy and your continued resistance to clarify your point as disingenuousness. It’s becoming, for me, an amusing little game to decide what I think you’re on about here. Clearly, the problem rests with me because nobody else is perceiving bullshit to call you out on. I can live with that. I spend a fair bit of time confused by people. I looked at my OP again, and examined my own intentions. I think the title was intended to creat interest, the last sentence was intended to encourage response, and all the stuff in between was just filler. I didn’t put much thought into it. Here’s a little more clarity from me: I’m an atheist who is neither wholly ignorant of the text nor a particularly nasty person. The reason I don’t care much whether Trump is an atheist, is that if so, it makes him and those who support him a little more ridiculous, but I’d rather have nothing in common with him. So it’s kind of a wash. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/91 "2018-12-09T01:53:01Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > My own opinion is that he believes he is a god, in the sense of the roman or greek gods. He believes in the divine right for him to rule us and us to worship him and his name. He is a bit upset that in the US he can’t have the same level of rulership/respect as Kim Jong-un or the like. > > While all of this is MHO, all also probably true. That may not be strictly true, but it sort of fits. Trump wants to be the big boss and to be seen as without flaw. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/92 "2018-12-09T04:44:34Z")
What do I think? I think atheists catch enough flack without him being on the team. He’s a tiny pathetic man and that’s identity enough. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/93 "2018-12-10T16:37:25Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > But that’s just it. Trump didn’t decide anything at all. He never gave a thought to whether there is a God. He’s just indifferent to the whole issue. You might say that makes him an atheist, but in general someone who is an atheist has made a judgment or decision of some sort. That is, an atheist is not a person who doesn’t believe there is a god, they believe there is not a god. I disagree. An atheist is exactly someone who doesn’t believe in any gods. One version of atheist is the positive atheist who asserts there is no god. > [@MEBuckner](#): > > As an atheist who absolutely despises Donald Trump, I have to say there’s a fair amount of “No True Scotsman” arguing going on in this thread. In fact, _lots_ of atheists over the years have argued that atheists are simply people who “don’t believe there is a god” ([An Introduction to Atheism](https://infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/intro.html) from way back in 1997; the [RationalWiki article on “Atheism”](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Atheism); and [something I wrote on this very board, a long, long time ago](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=1533743&postcount=2)). > > Trump may well be an atheist. He certainly doesn’t strike me as any kind of good Christian, although that, of course, does not make him an atheist; he may believe in some kind of God or Higher Power (even in a Higher Power _not_ named “Donald Trump”) without holding to (or having much knowledge or understanding of) the tenets of Christianity. Agreed. If he’s an atheist, it is through apathy or “I’m too smart for that”. If he’s a believer, it is a weak “that’s the way it is” believer who hasn’t put any depth into studying Christianity or Christian beliefs of any sort. He is also an opportunistic Christian - his “faith” is just a ploy for votes. He’s a big phony whether he nominally believes or not. > [@](#): > > And who did the “none of the above” Americans vote for? (A group that includes capital-A Atheists, “apatheists”, “spiritual but not religious”, people who have basically made up their own religion but in any event sleep in on Sundays, and so forth): _We_ went for the woman I like to call “the Methodist church lady” over our Possible-Fellow-Nonbeliever by 68% to 26%. Clinton also easily carried Jews (71% to 24%) and “other religions” (e.g., Hindus, and of course Muslims; 62% to 29%). It is amusing and ironic that the atheists overwhelmingly voted for the Christian candidate over a possibly atheist one. But the possibly atheist one publicly proclaimed Christian belief, so that’s a wash. Trump is a prick and an asshole. Doesn’t mean he can’t also be an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/94 "2018-12-10T16:57:36Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Does anyone here know who Paula White is married to? You will if you read this post. 😃 > > She’s married to (former?) Journey keyboardist Jonathan Cain, who has said that he has also embraced Christianity in recent years. That they have 7 marriages between them (his 4th, her 3rd) makes sense that Agent Orange would choose someone like her to be his spiritual advisor. [What Would Journey Do?](https://harpers.org/archive/1999/03/rock-prophets/) ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/95 "2018-12-10T17:09:56Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I actually had someone tell me the other day that the “trumpets” mentioned in the book of Revelation have something to do with Trump :smack: Well that is a Revelation indeed, funniest thing I have heard all day 😃 So HE brought down the walls of Jericho too? The man never ceases to marvel me, I thought his speciality was building walls, not tearing them down. Concerning the question, I agree with all those who said HE is too \*thinkfaul \*to know what atheism is or to care about it at all, he probably would not understand the question. The word atheism is probably too long for his attention span anyway. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/96 "2018-12-10T18:29:17Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I disagree. An atheist is exactly someone who doesn’t believe in any gods. One version of atheist is the positive atheist who asserts there is no god. Already revisited in post #65. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/97 "2018-12-10T22:53:52Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > It is amusing and ironic that the atheists overwhelmingly voted for the Christian candidate over a possibly atheist one. But the possibly atheist one publicly proclaimed Christian belief, so that’s a wash. I don’t think it’s quite a “wash”, and I think the irony is pretty astonishing, really, because Trump’s profession of Christian devotion is so _obviously_ bogus. We’re not talking about discovering that Presidential candidate the Reverend Nehemiah Scudder _secretly_ cavorts with porn stars and is almost certainly just a cynical demagogue who doesn’t give a single solitary hoot in hell about religion by, say, reading the Rev. Scudder’s secret diary, or having a foreign power hack his private e-mails. Trump’s lack of any real Christian values, and the shallowness of his supposed profession of faith, was and is screamingly apparent. From [“Two Corinthians”](https://www.npr.org/2016/01/18/463528847/citing-two-corinthians-trump-struggles-to-make-the-sale-to-evangelicals) to the time [Trump said](https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/trump-has-never-sought-forgiveness/index.html) > [@](#): > > I am not sure I have [asked God for forgiveness]. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don’t think so. I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don’t bring God into that picture. I don’t.\* And, you know, the man’s entire life: _This_ is the darling of the Religious Right in America?!? :dubious: and :smack: \*To be clear, as a godless heathen myself, I don’t actually think that’s a terribly bad thing to say. Really, it’s one of the least offensive things Trump has ever said; it does sort of acknowledge the possibility that he has maybe done things wrong in the past; and from a Secular Humanist point of view, reacting to doing wrong by “trying to do a better job from there” and “just trying to make it right” rather than by asking for the forgiveness of a (nonexistent) God is quite a reasonable attitude to take. But it doesn’t seem like a very _Christian_ thing to say, and it sure as hell isn’t an _ **Evangelical Christian** _ thing to say at all. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/98 "2018-12-11T10:48:54Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I actually had someone tell me the other day that the “trumpets” mentioned in the book of Revelation have something to do with Trump :smack: You should show your friend this at Amazon, [_Clovenhoof and the Trump of Doom_](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N1U4MXO/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title) and make him read the first chapter displayed in Look Inside. His head will explode. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/99 "2018-12-11T11:03:40Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > I wouldn’t classify Trump as an atheist - that takes some conviction and implies some thoughtful consideration of the matter. Practically speaking, he’s a “[none](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/13/a-closer-look-at-americas-rapidly-growing-religious-nones/)”. That classification might be a little confusing in a verbal conversation. I am now picturing him dressed in black and white, wearing a wimple. Having dabbled in Buddhism, I think he is a [Hungry Ghost](https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/tribal-culture/hungry-ghosts-their-history-and-origin). > [@](#): > > Defined by a fusion of rage and desire, tormented by unfulfilled cravings and insatiably demanding impossible satisfactions, hungry ghosts are condemned to inhabit shadowy and dismal places in the realm of the living. Their specific hunger varies according to their past karma and the sins they are atoning for. Some can eat but find it impossible to find food or drink. Others may find food and drink, but have pinhole mouths and cannot swallow. For others, food bursts into flames or rots even as they devour it. Japanese hungry ghosts called gaki must eat excrement while those called jikininki are cursed to devour human corpses. According to Hindu tradition, hungry ghosts may endlessly seek particular objects, emotions or people, those things that obsessed them or caused them to commit bad deeds when they were living: riches, gems, children, even fear or the vitality of the living. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690/100 "2018-12-11T16:27:18Z")
I agree that Trump just doesn’t think that much about it. I am more surprised (though I have heard it often) about Obama. To me he seems just like the liberal mainline Protestants who go to my Church (though I’m ELCA and he is UCC). It’s readily apparent to me. Though, then again, a lot of right wing Evangelicals think we in the ELCA are basically atheist anyways. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-atheist/825690.md?page=6)