# Trump is an even bigger disaster than we thought **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209 "2016-12-08T15:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/61 "2016-12-08T23:17:42Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The EPA is just one of many, many federal agencies/departments that should be shut down immediately. There is no provision for its existence; it’s another one of many, many federal encroachments on issues that belong to the states. **Clothahump** , the only effect your posts have is to show what a total fucking moron and tool you are. Most environmental problems transcend state lines. (And the EPA was established by a Republican president, Nixon, in any case.) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/62 "2016-12-08T23:22:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The EPA is just one of many, many federal agencies/departments that should be shut down immediately. There is no provision for its existence; it’s another one of many, many federal encroachments on issues that belong to the states.] Have you ever heard of a river crossing state lines, you dim-wit? Does air pollution in one state STAY IN THAT STATE, you pathetic moron? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/63 "2016-12-09T00:03:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Have you ever heard of a river crossing state lines, you dim-wit? > > Does air pollution in one state STAY IN THAT STATE, you pathetic moron? You think you’re making sense but you are really just giving them ideas. Anything goes now. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/64 "2016-12-09T00:35:21Z")
People need to learn how to filter this shyt. I get the impression alot of posters on this site hear, see or read something in the media or wherever and just immediately apply their label to it and off they go, spouting ridiculous bullshit at every turn. It’s not hard to understand how so many were duped by Billary. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/65 "2016-12-09T00:38:17Z")
> [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > No, it was lazy and apathetic Democrats who got Trump (R - GTBTP) elected. No it wasn’t, Hillary is on the verge of 66 million votes and beating Obama’s vote in 2012. Seeing how this would be a 3rd term for a democrat, matching Obama’s 2012 vote totals is a pretty good sign. The problem is the white working class abandoned the democratic party, moved about 16 points to the right. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/66 "2016-12-09T00:53:48Z")
Trump is supposed to be a new Hitler, a Russian puppet, and a man baby who’s going to start WWIII over a tweet. Appointing business executives to regulatory agencies doesn’t quite clear the bar. Maybe the BBQ needs an omnibus thread for capitalist RO stories. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/67 "2016-12-09T00:56:33Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The problem is the white working class abandoned the democratic party, moved about 16 points to the right. Shall I lecture you on the steps starting with admitting you have a problem? Because NOBODY I’ve seen posting on this site seems willing to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/68 "2016-12-09T01:16:19Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > People need to learn how to filter this shyt. I get the impression alot of posters on this site hear, see or read something in the media or wherever and just immediately apply their label to it and off they go, spouting ridiculous bullshit at every turn. > > It’s not hard to understand how so many were duped by Billary. Cut the crap, the OP is not making any bullshit, Trump and his cabinet are. > **[More on Trump’s Catastrophic Plan to Gut NASA’s Earth Science](https://slate.com/technology/2016/11/interview-on-cbc-about-trumps-plan-to-gut-earth-science-at-nasa.html)** > > Follow-up: More info about Trump's disastrous plan to gut NASA's Earth science. > [@](#): > > As expected, the days leading up to Donald Trump’s inauguration are like the timer on an atomic bomb ticking down to Armageddon. Every day there’s some new horrific thing he and his cronies do, and the only predictable thing they do is find the worst possible choice to make in any given circumstance. > > This was brought home, hard, when Bob Walker, a top Trump adviser, recently said that the new administration will gut NASA’s Earth science program. The reason: Trump’s long-standing and implacable climate science denial. And this, of course, is the inevitable outcome of decades of Republican attacks on science. > [@](#): > > We need to arm ourselves against the barrage of weaponized denial we’ll be facing for the next four years. Trump himself, and his proxies as well, have no trouble at all just bare-faced lying to the American public. We must stand ready to fight against this. Whether it’s the racism, the xenophobia, the misogyny, or the attacks on science, it is no exaggeration to say that our culture, our country, and even our very existence depend on us. > > Climate change is already one of if not the biggest threat our species has faced. I still have hope: When challenged, Americans have a history of meeting adversity head on. As I’ve written before: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > When Americans are challenged, we rise up and do our best. I honestly and truly think that we can, that this is an opportunity to show the world that we won’t stick out heads in the sand. We’ll face this issue, and we’ll figure out how to minimize it, how to circumvent it, how to manage it. I don’t believe in phony platitudes, or empty motivational slogans, so my words here don’t ring hollow to me. They’re simply the truth. We went to the Moon, we put rovers on Mars, we look outward to the Universe and forward into the future. That’s America. > > > > Climate change is one of the largest existential threats we face today. It’s time to face it down. > > > > ``` > > I wrote that before the election, but it’s still true. It’ll just be a lot harder with Trump and the GOP in charge. That means we have to dig in and deal with them, too. We can do this. We have to. And that is from Doper **The Bad Astronomer** AKA Phil Plait Yep, just to remind you that several dopers are scientists too. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/69 "2016-12-09T01:22:30Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Shall I lecture you on the steps starting with admitting you have a problem? > > Because NOBODY I’ve seen posting on this site seems willing to admit it. Seems that we need to convince about 112,000 of the working people in the rust belt next time; very doable considering that more than 2 million all over the country did prefer the flawed Clinton rather than the incompetent in chief. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/70 "2016-12-09T01:43:05Z")
Plait’s hopeful optimism is inspiring rhetoric, but the reality is that without governmental regulation, support for technologies that reduce atmospheric carbon emissions, and most vital, the Earth surveillance work largely done by satellite observations is all critical to assessing the state of the climate and taking effective action to mitigate further damage. This is a problem that is larger than individuals, or private groups or single agencies. It is really an issue that requires the execution of cohesive long term plan to address the problems in multiple aspects (reduction of carbon emissions, integration of new technologies and the coping with the economics of phasing out existing low cost but high pollution technologies, planning for unavoidable climate effects) that is beyond the scope of anything short of a governmental body. And without the United States taking the lead, and with the European Union seemingly coming undone there is the very real question of whether any nation is going to make a substantive effort to address the issue in the foreseeable future. This goes beyond even a single term Trump administration; if he shuts down NASA and NOAA programs doing Earth surveillance and fails to fund followups, just recovering from that is the work of a decade or more. Plait is no doubt trying to put on a positive spin and assure people that they can and should still care to take what action they can, but realistically without legislative and executive support we will see a regression in effective action to mitigate climate change. And that, along with the potential of a catastrophic asteroid impact or global pandemic illness, are the biggest threats we face that we could and should be doing what is practicable to prevent or prepare for. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/71 "2016-12-09T01:55:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Plait’s hopeful optimism is inspiring rhetoric, but the reality is that without governmental regulation, support for technologies that reduce atmospheric carbon emissions, and most vital, the Earth surveillance work largely done by satellite observations is all critical to assessing the state of the climate and taking effective action to mitigate further damage. Of course, Trump thinks that climate change is Chinese propaganda and wants NASA to shut down all research and satellite observation on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/72 "2016-12-09T02:50:01Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Shall I lecture you on the steps starting with admitting you have a problem? > > Because NOBODY I’ve seen posting on this site seems willing to admit it. Feel free to lecture me. I am still personally confused why the white working class abandoned the democratic party. Esp white men. White men w/o a college degree preferred Trump 3-1 over Clinton, roughly 75-25. Those kinds of ratios of 3-1 is the same margin LBGTers give the democrats. However LGBTs are oppressed, and the GOP persecutes them while democrats push legislation friendly towards them. I don’t see the dems persecuting white men with a high school education. Yet they voted as partisan as historically persecuted groups like LGBTs. I assume it was a mix of culture and economics. Culturally they feel the dems only care about minorities, and economically Trump’s stance on China, NAFTA, TPP, etc. appealed to them. But at the same time, it is obvious that even before taking office Trump is going to run a very anti-worker administration while Hillary had actual plans. So the economic argument doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/73 "2016-12-09T03:14:03Z")
He did direct research on what they wanted to hear, he did it like a stand-up comic does, or a budding demagogue. He stood in front of them and started running his mouth, jumping from subject to subject like a flea. Keeping his antennae tuned to their frequencies, he knew which topics they wanted to be stroked on, and which bored them. “Build the wall” got them cheering, “Lock her up” sent them into orgasmic spasms. They crawled into Santa’s lap and screamed what they wanted for Christmas, and he promised to bring them. Nothing wrong with what they want, for the most part, human type stuff. But that they don’t have them is not so scary as who they blame for it. That part’s scary. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/74 "2016-12-09T03:28:37Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I assume it was a mix of culture and economics. Culturally they feel the dems only care about minorities, and economically Trump’s stance on China, NAFTA, TPP, etc. appealed to them. > > But at the same time, it is obvious that even before taking office Trump is going to run a very anti-worker administration while Hillary had actual plans. So the economic argument doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. There is certainly some amount of pushback to the recent cultural shifts of marriage equality, transgender rights, tacit and sometimes legislative acceptance of illegal immigration, and so forth–none of which speaks to the concerns or interests of that demographic–but there is also the manufactured story about how bad the economy is, how little “Washington” does for the middle third of the country, and some legitimate grief over how trade agreements like NAFTA, while being an overall benefit to the economy, have hurt employment in key manufacturing sectors. (That those jobs are largely going away due to increasing automation, just as they have in Europe and Asia, is neglected, but when you see your job going south of the border to someone making a fraction of your wages it’s not prone to making people think in terms of logic.) Trump campaigned on rhetoric, not reason or policy (what ‘policy’ statements his campaign provided were risible in their utter lack of detail or implementation), and that rhetoric was largely, “Burn it down and dig through the ashes for the silver.” Which, if you’re angry, fearful, or just feeling marginalized compared to the attention being given to minority interests, is a really appealing message. That it is completely nonsensical in terms of actually governing the nation or supporting the economy was overshadowed by buffoonery, largely manufactured scandals of the day, and divisions within the opposing party about how much the party favorite was entrenched with the banking interests who had a big hand in the economical collapse. And there was Trump, with a red trucker cap, promising to “Make America Great Again!” (a slogan stolen from a previous popular president, by the way), and unapologetically acting like a douchy high school sophomore driving around his his gold Trans-Am with a T-top roof and three cheerleaders. Never mind that Trump is about as working class as [a hot pink Maserati](http://www.carnewschina.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/maserati-pink-china-1.jpg?x21786); his “brand” of expensive tackiness is exactly what appeals to every guy punching a time clock at some shitty job and dreaming of winning the lottery. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/75 "2016-12-09T03:42:55Z")
We don’t need to worry about Democrats electing the next Democrat. donald trump will elect the next Democrat. (Assuming that free elections are still a thing in four years.) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/76 "2016-12-09T03:51:52Z")
> [@Frankenstein\_Monster](#): > > Yes, that was then. (I’m just about old enough to have seen with my own eyes.) But this is now. We are not going back to those times. Why not? It’s ALL about the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/77 "2016-12-09T03:57:04Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > We don’t need to worry about Democrats electing the next Democrat. donald trump will elect the next Democrat. It was that kind of obtuse thinking that had the Democrats selecting a candidate with historically low popularity and assuming they couldn’t lose regardless. They need the be conscious of selecting a candidate with broader appeal beyond their own party leadership. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/78 "2016-12-09T03:57:12Z")
> [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > No, it was lazy and apathetic Democrats who got Trump (R - GTBTP) elected. What is the popular vote up to now? 2.6 million for Clinton??? 2.7? I don’t know, it keeps climbing. We didn’t get Trump elected. His supporters did. Own it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/79 "2016-12-09T03:59:14Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > People need to learn how to filter this shyt. I get the impression alot of posters on this site hear, see or read something in the media or wherever and just immediately apply their label to it and off they go, spouting ridiculous bullshit at every turn. > > It’s not hard to understand how so many were duped by Billary. ``` ↑ ``` Case in point, Exhibit A. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209/80 "2016-12-09T04:04:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Seems that we need to convince about 112,000 of the working people in the rust belt next time; very doable considering that more than 2 million all over the country did prefer the flawed Clinton rather than the incompetent in chief. How about the ones that won’t be working soon. > **[Donald Trump attacks Carrier union leader, blames employees for being laid off](https://www.salon.com/2016/12/08/donald-trump-attacks-carrier-union-leader-blames-employoees-for-being-laid-off/)** > > Donald Trump picked a fight with yet another person who stood up to him, and blamed the victims for being laid off Thursday, Dec 8, 2016 04:37 AM PST Donald Trump attacks Carrier union leader, blames employees for being laid off Donald Trump picked a fight with yet another person who stood up to him, and blamed the victims for being laid off “If United Steelworkers 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in Indiana. Spend more time working-less time talking. Reduce dues” This is the “Champion of the Rust Belt”, the guy who will save your jobs and find you jobs. Not even IN the White House yet and he’s already selling you out. It WILL get worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-an-even-bigger-disaster-than-we-thought/774209.md?page=5)