# Trump is the Antichrist to some people, and it's okay with them
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 7, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048 "2020-01-07T00:46:50Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/61 "2020-01-11T22:36:44Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> Who knew bookmarks could be so complicated?
At least it’s not a [Quran bookmark](https://www.google.com/search?q=quran+bookmarks). I’m not having any luck looking for mention of bookmarks in the Quran. Maybe they’re too complicated.
An antichrist is one whose teachings are counter to the christ’s. Like Saul / Paul.
---
### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2020, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/62 "2020-01-12T06:05:47Z")
Huge differences separate Donald Trump from the prophesied Antichrist. But most of us don’t believe in prophesies much anyway. One thing is clear: this oaf has already done huge damage. Many decades from now, people may point to him when they lament the Decline and Fall of America.
In comparing Trump with other Antichrists, real or imagined, the [following quote](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1852/18th-brumaire/ch01.htm) might work well, with a few words changed:
> [@Karl Marx](#):
>
> Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/63 "2020-01-13T01:34:40Z")
I don’t see Trump as an Antichrist, but is [the embodiment of the 7 deadly sins.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/07/31/how-trump-embodies-seven-deadly-sins-brian-klaas-column/523664001/)
The real bad thing IMHO is how many in the religious right are ignoring the gross hypocrisy in continuing to support someone like Trump.
> **[Nonreligious Questions](https://www.patheos.com/nonreligious-questions/)**
>
> Whether you’ve been turned off by religion in the past or have a question about one of the world’s religions, check out what Patheos has to offer.
> [@](#):
>
> A Republican who served under Presidents Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush says the white evangelicals who support Donald Trump do far more damage to Christianity than atheists ever could.
>
> He’s right. (Also, I’m insulted.)
>
> Peter Wehner made a similar statement in a New York Times essay in 2017, but his comments to CNN’s Michael Smerconish yesterday were even more blunt.
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > … I think it’s been tremendously discrediting to the Christian faith. And I think it’s shown to a watching world a tremendous amount of hypocrisy. After all, this “character counts” and “personal integrity” and “political leadership” was central to what a lot of… evangelicals argued when Bill Clinton was president. And now that it’s Donald Trump, they’ve decided to push that aside, which means that morality for them was a means to an end, not an end. It was something to be used as a political weapon.
> >
> > ```
> > … I think a lot of these white evangelical leaders are doing more to hurt Christianity than the so-called New Atheists ever could.
> >
> > ```
>
> There’s a lot of truth to that last statement. No arguments against the logical incoherence of Christian beliefs are as powerful as seeing the hypocrisy with your own eyes. When you see refugees in cages, an administration mired in scandals, a president who paid his mistresses hush money, and Republican leadership that is so quick to brag about their Christian faith but silent every time Trump is racist or sexist or otherwise cruel, it’s easy to think that evangelical Christianity is devoid of morality.
>
> I certainly appreciate any conservative will to admit the obvious — and to do it publicly.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/64 "2020-01-13T11:41:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Do you have a cite that Mike Pompeo believes that Trump is the anti-Christ, or that he believes that we are currently in the End Times?
I can’t tell if you’re Just Asking Questions or really don’t know this, but Mike Pompeo’s [stated belief in Rapture eschatology is well known](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pompeo-fight-battles-rapture/), and he alluded to it explicitly in a public rally back in 2015.
Exactly where Pompeo believes we are at the moment in this eschatological timeline I don’t know.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/65 "2020-01-13T15:09:48Z")
So you don’t have a cite. That’s kind of obvious, and also my point.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/66 "2020-01-13T15:51:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> So you don’t have a cite. That’s kind of obvious, and also my point.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
He just posted a cite. Sorry you ignored it.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/67 "2020-01-13T16:23:24Z")
She, I believe.
Do you have such a cite?
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/68 "2020-01-13T16:28:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> She, I believe.
>
> Do you have such a cite?
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
Why are you ignoring the one already posted?
Regards,
Happy
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### Author:  [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/69 "2020-01-13T16:56:11Z")
Ok, let’s review the bidding on the latest Shodan vs everyone contretemps.
The OP used a quote from the NY times that said:
> [@](#):
>
> Both Mike Pompeo and Mike Pence who have pushed Trump towards aggressive action towards Iran believe that there is a battle between good and evil that will end with “the Rapture”. A key belief of the evangelical Christian extremists is the establishment of a “greater Israel” before the end of days.
Afterwards RTFirefly posted a response wondering why Pompeo thinks that way:
> [@RTFirefly](#):
>
> I’ve been a born-again Christian since the fall of 1970, back in the “[Late Great Planet Earth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Late,_Great_Planet_Earth)” days.
>
> Needless to say, I’ve seen prospective End Times come and go. After awhile, if you’ve got a functioning brain, you look and see all those other times that were supposedly about to be the End Times, and you think, “there’s nothing particularly special about this time either, why would anyone who’s been around the block a couple of times believe that _this_ time is _really_ going to be the End Times?”
>
> Mike Pompeo is 56 years old. That’s a bit too old for falling for this shit. He shouldn’t be trusted with the car keys, let alone have a substantial role in government.
Shodan, instead of referencing the NY times ‘opinion’ and questioning it, attributes a position to RTFirefly that he manifestly did not make.
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Do you have a cite that Mike Pompeo believes that Trump is the anti-Christ, or that he believes that we are currently in the End Times?
>
> Or that he had the Iranian general whacked because of a Swiss Army knife pointing to the book of Esther, or pretty much anything else claimed in the thread.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
Kimstu responds with evidence that Pompeo is a believer in the “Rapture” and provides additional evidence.
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> I can’t tell if you’re Just Asking Questions or really don’t know this, but Mike Pompeo’s [stated belief in Rapture eschatology is well known](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pompeo-fight-battles-rapture/), and he alluded to it explicitly in a public rally back in 2015.
>
> Exactly where Pompeo believes we are at the moment in this eschatological timeline I don’t know.
Shodan continues to argue about a cite for Trump being the Anti-Christ, a point neither RTFirefly or Kimstu maintained in their posts.
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> So you don’t have a cite. That’s kind of obvious, and also my point.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
My conclusion (FWIW) is that Shodan started an argument, but with the wrong people and on false pretenses, attributing views not in evidence from the two people he engaged.
IMHO as always. YMMV
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/70 "2020-01-13T17:40:47Z")
OK, at least we have established that this -
> [@](#):
>
> Trump is the Antichrist to some people, and it’s okay with them
isn’t true, or at least nobody has been cited who fits that description. Certainly not Mike Pompeo.
Further, the NYT opinion writer alleges that Pompeo is hostile to Iran, and offers as his evidence that he allegedly saw a Swiss Army knife pointing to a passage in the book of Esther. The book of Esther doesn’t mention the end times, nor the anti-Christ, nor Trump, nor even God. I don’t consider that to be good evidence. So, could we get a cite that Pompeo’s hostility to Iran is based on Esther, rather than, for instance, Iran’s state sponsorship of terrorism, their efforts to develop a nuclear bomb, their killing of Americans, their unfortunate habit of chanting “death to America”, etc., etc.?
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/71 "2020-01-13T18:08:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Further, the NYT opinion writer alleges that Pompeo is hostile to Iran, and offers as his evidence that he allegedly saw a Swiss Army knife pointing to a passage in the book of Esther. The book of Esther doesn’t mention the end times, nor the anti-Christ, nor Trump, nor even God. I don’t consider that to be good evidence. So, could we get a cite that Pompeo’s hostility to Iran is based on Esther, rather than, for instance, Iran’s state sponsorship of terrorism, their efforts to develop a nuclear bomb, their killing of Americans, their unfortunate habit of chanting “death to America”, etc., etc.?
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
Perhaps[CBN](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5v5Dc1N2qs) is more to your liking, start at the 1:40 mark. Read that question back, and Pompeo’s answer.
Well there is [a Hebrew letter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZVukIIn9aE) that looks just like that, a Swiss Army Knife. So maybe Pompeo uses that for some kind of a of symbolic inspiration and evangelical support for Israel, hell if I know.
But using a Swiss Army knife to mark a page in Ester shouldn’t be the thing one is the most concerned about. The craziness of fundamentalists and evangelicals and the shit they read in holy works that inspires them should be.
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/72 "2020-01-13T18:17:29Z")
I don’t know about you guys, but knowing that one of the most powerful guys on the planet is drawing his cues from endtimes gobbledigook ; and not only that but is trying to get the end times GOING is kind of freaking me right the fuck out.
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### Author:  [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/73 "2020-01-13T20:49:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> OK, at least we have established that this - isn’t true, or at least nobody has been cited who fits that description. Certainly not Mike Pompeo.
Right wing religious folks love to interpret this sort of stuff and speculate who is the AntiChrist. A quick search on Amazon produced these works that think Trump is just that. Who knows, maybe Pompeo plays a role, but you gotta be careful with amateur propheteers, yeah, like a doctor of divinity I’m sure could narrow it down and clear it all right up.
[Rise of the Little Horn](https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Little-Horn-Jonathan-Dane/dp/1983759988/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Trump+antichrist&qid=1578945812&sr=8-3) names Trump as the AntiChrist. Read the reviews, doesn’t appear to be a parody. Athough I’m sure Trump is most offended by Little Horn, and would have preferred Big Horn. Book even says it is not a work of fiction, so dar ya go!
The Fourth Beast: Is Donald Trump the Antichrist?
[Is Trump the Anti-Christ?](https://www.amazon.com/Trump-Antichrist-D-Xander-Varos-ebook/dp/B06WD2B1T7/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Is+Trump+the+Anti-Christ%3F&qid=1578946598&s=digital-text&sr=1-2)
Is Trump the AntiChrist, The Future
[Bible Prophecy & Trump: Daniel Chapter 8 A Goat Stubborn King of the West will Attack Iran (Persia) making His Nation “Very Great” in End Times Then the … Occurs Over 150 End Time Prophecies](https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Prophecy-Trump-Stubborn-Prophecies-ebook/dp/B01MUKGJJU/ref=pd_sim_351_4/135-2012342-9965753?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01MUKGJJU&pd_rd_r=45dd4447-2bb5-4675-b475-857d71d38e2b&pd_rd_w=SwKwZ&pd_rd_wg=6Pkz1&pf_rd_p=04d27813-a1f2-4e7b-a32b-b5ab374ce3f9&pf_rd_r=K9YZTQ7AMMR560G0QAJH&psc=1&refRID=K9YZTQ7AMMR560G0QAJH)
A least this last one, not the AntiChrist, Trump is just a stubborn Goat King of the West.
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2020, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/74 "2020-01-14T05:55:39Z")
LOL. One of the amusing things about getting old is seeing the same bullshit recycled again and again, and watching young people (or old people with no memory) fall for it.
Pretty much every time an Evangelical has gotten near Miiddle East policy in the last 40 years, media types but have no clue about what evangelicals actually believe get their panties in a twist about how all the Jeebus freaks are trying to usher in the end times.
> **[RELIGIOUS LEADERS TELL OF WORRY ON ARMAGEDDON VIEW ASCRIBED TO REAGAN...](https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/21/us/religious-leaders-tell-of-worry-on-armageddon-view-ascribed-to-reagan.html)**
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2020, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/75 "2020-01-14T07:53:41Z")
> [@Razncain](#):
>
> Perhaps[CBN](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5v5Dc1N2qs) is more to your liking, start at the 1:40 mark. Read that question back, and Pompeo’s answer.
>
> Well there is [a Hebrew letter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZVukIIn9aE) that looks just like that, a Swiss Army Knife. So maybe Pompeo uses that for some kind of a of symbolic inspiration and evangelical support for Israel, hell if I know.
>
> But using a Swiss Army knife to mark a page in Ester shouldn’t be the thing one is the most concerned about. The craziness of fundamentalists and evangelicals and the shit they read in holy works that inspires them should be.
The funny thing is that according to the Bible and history alike, in all of antiquity, Persia was the Jews’ greatest friend and benefactor. Cyrus the Great, after all, freed the Jews from bondage in Babylon and allowed them to rebuild the Temple, granting them full religious. Other than that unfortunate incident with Haman (who was just the one guy), the Persian Empire were the nicest people we ever dealt with.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/76 "2020-01-15T02:35:06Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> LOL. One of the amusing things about getting old is seeing the same bullshit recycled again and again, and watching young people (or old people with no memory) fall for it.
>
> Pretty much every time an Evangelical has gotten near Miiddle East policy in the last 40 years, media types but have no clue about what evangelicals actually believe get their panties in a twist about how all the Jeebus freaks are trying to usher in the end times.
>
> [https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/21/us/religious-leaders-tell-of-worry-on-armageddon-view-ascribed-to-reagan.html](https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/21/us/religious-leaders-tell-of-worry-on-armageddon-view-ascribed-to-reagan.html)
Forty years ago I lived a mile away from Wheaton College, Billy Graham 's alma mater. I have a fair idea what Evangelicals believe. First, I’m going to Hell.
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### Author:  [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/77 "2020-01-15T20:39:53Z")
I remember an article by Gore Vidal predicting that Ronald Reagan would initiate Armageddon before leaving office to fulfil the prophesy.
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/78 "2020-01-16T00:56:45Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> forty years ago i lived a mile away from wheaton college, billy graham 's alma mater. I have a fair idea what evangelicals believe.
😂😂😂😂
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/79 "2020-01-16T02:43:26Z")
Duplicate content
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-antichrist-to-some-people-and-its-okay-with-them/846048/80 "2020-01-16T02:42:21Z")
It was the good old days when all you needed to say to a freshman asking, "Have you been saved? " was "No, I’m Catholic. " Then their profs put a bounty on Catholics, so I switched to being Jewish. That didn’t last (perhaps the profs learned the error of their Protestant ways and introduced the kids to indulgences), so I tried, “Have you heard the good news of Rev Sun Myung Moon?” Before I needed to learn anything about the Unification Church it was just easier to move to the next town east.
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