# Trump is the best thing that ever happened to the Democratic Party **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 24, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559 "2016-12-24T20:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/61 "2016-12-26T23:58:25Z")
Bush’s presidency was widely regarded to be so disastrous that it might usher in a new age of liberalism. The new democratic wave turned out to be short-lived and now the country is more republican now than at any time in the last 140 years. The party focused on winning the presidency and in doing so tried to use the country’s changing demography to its advantage. But it failed to create a movement that enjoys broad support. Trump could fail miserably and yet if they don’t address the problems they’ve had as a party since 2008, the damage will be largely confined to the effort to control the White House. Most states will be under republican control. Both chambers of congress could be under GOP control, or at worst, within reach of control within a 2 year election cycle. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/62 "2016-12-27T04:03:07Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > For point 1, I think the modern democratic party is a mix of social/environmental liberals, but also the disadvantaged. Oppressed minorities (blacks, latinos, immigrants) as well as the actual poor. The dems have been losing the white working class for a while. In 2008 the GOP presidential candidate won the WWC by 14 points, then it was about 26 points in 2012, then it was 39 points in 2016. > > A major flaw of democrats is that they support programs that help the poor, but we don’t do much for the near poor. The poor get medicaid, the near poor get expensive high deductible insurance plans. Stuff like that. > > However, if the rejection of the dems by the WWC is cultural, there isn’t much we can do about it. Blacks are a strong component of the dem coalition (making up 1/4 of dem voters). Democrats aren’t going to abandon black people fighting against police brutality to do slightly less worse among the white working class. Also the white working class faces economic competition from latino immigrants, and the dems want a path to citizenship. > > It is difficult really to rectify the cultural and economic needs of the white working class with modern dem policies. Certain dem policies like unions, health care subsidies, etc. would help them. But apparently it isn’t enough. > > As for point 2, you are right. Obama ran as the change candidate, and when he didn’t pull through all that energy that went into Obama went into Sanders in 2016. People like Sanders and Warren are who the dems look for for change. > > Which begs the question, when will the US public become ok with the establishment again? What would it take? Both parties are very anti-establishment now, but all they do is elect candidates who talk a big game (Trump, Obama) then fill their cabinets with establishment people. But at least Obama moved the country in the right direction economically, even if it wasn’t as far as people wanted. Trump is going to make economic life harder for the masses. > > Its a mess. This is a very on point synopsis. Especially this > [@](#): > > A major flaw of democrats is that they support programs that help the poor, but we don’t do much for the near poor. The poor get Medicaid, the near poor get expensive high deductible insurance plans. Stuff like that. Thanks for the clarity. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/63 "2016-12-27T06:09:39Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > For point 1, I think the modern democratic party is a mix of social/environmental liberals, but also the disadvantaged. Oppressed minorities (blacks, latinos, immigrants) as well as the actual poor. The dems have been losing the white working class for a while. In 2008 the GOP presidential candidate won the WWC by 14 points, then it was about 26 points in 2012, then it was 39 points in 2016. Yes, it wouldn’t be fair to analyze the Democratic coalition without pointing out that on the social front, they are standing up for minorities. But again, this has come at the expense of their economic priorities. Which is fine as far as it goes, since BLM was making the point all year that while African-American appreciate the problem of economic inequality, being treated as equal citizens comes first. And Democrats have in fact made that the first priority for all disadvantaged groups. But that comes with an opportunity cost, since more time focused on issues like that means less time for their economic agenda. > [@](#): > > A major flaw of democrats is that they support programs that help the poor, but we don’t do much for the near poor. The poor get medicaid, the near poor get expensive high deductible insurance plans. Stuff like that. I think that’s a political problem, but from a policy perspective it makes perfect sense. It sucks to be near poor, but in a world of limited resources you can’t take care of everyone who is merely uncomfortable. You have to prioritize the truly impoverished first. > [@](#): > > Which begs the question, when will the US public become ok with the establishment again? What would it take? Both parties are very anti-establishment now, but all they do is elect candidates who talk a big game (Trump, Obama) then fill their cabinets with establishment people. But at least Obama moved the country in the right direction economically, even if it wasn’t as far as people wanted. Trump is going to make economic life harder for the masses. > > . The establishment has to deliver. People are willing to overlook the sausuage making if good policies result. Democrats aren’t wrong about that much of it. But getting to good policy using bad means is difficult and neither Democrats nor the establishment Republicans have been getting it done. The other problem, as Vox points out, is that the Democratic Party primarily caters to its donor base, which prioritizes social and environmental issues and doesn’t want its taxes to go up: > **[Elite donors push Democrats left on climate and immigration, but right on taxes](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/26/14042118/donors-democrats-bernie-sanders)** > > What would happen if Democrats adopted Bernie Sanders’s call to reject the 1 percenters bankrolling the party? ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/64 "2016-12-27T06:15:08Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > - Personal note: virtually all the relatives and minorities I had contact in Arizona were weary of voting in election day because of the pumped up fears of violence or challenges at the polls. We voted early and now I do realize that a good number of the ones that did not show up in election day were because of those fears. Cite? I did a search and didn’t see any violence or challenges at the polls related to the Presidential election in Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/65 "2016-12-27T06:37:44Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Cite? > > I did a search and didn’t see any violence or challenges at the polls related to the Presidential election in Arizona. Read it again, “pumped up” refers to **unfounded** fears. Many relatives and co-workers (some of them black) [pointed at what Trump was saying as one important reason for the fears](http://www.vox.com/world/2016/10/26/13412050/donald-trump-rigged-elections-violence). I voted early because I already was for years in the early vote list, and I did point at the fears to be mostly exaggerated. It could had been an issue only in states that Trump had pointed out as places for his goons to be more active like in Pennsylvania. But, what I do think it took place is that by then most of the media harped on this and the fear expanded to many across America, and to a good number of Democratic voters. It has to be added also that in Arizona a more prosaic fear was also at work: the primaries were grossly mismanaged by the current Republican administration, so on that on election day many people that were of less means could not risk their employment, the fear then was more basic: getting stuck for hours in line like in the primaries and end up giving up like many did and deciding to go back to work instead. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/66 "2016-12-27T07:07:08Z")
Sounds very much like the armed black New Panthers who were going to threaten at polling places to stop white voters which alarmed timid right-wing sites back in 2008. Turned out to be just two guys. Nice to know Dems are the same gullible 'fraidycats as Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/67 "2016-12-27T13:13:20Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Sounds very much like the armed black New Panthers who were going to threaten at polling places to stop white voters which alarmed timid right-wing sites back in 2008. > > Turned out to be just two guys. > > Nice to know Dems are the same gullible 'fraidycats as Republicans. Hostile poll watchers were encouraged by Trump. Of course, it was just another of his vote-getting threats–& his “vigilantes” stayed home. The Republicans feared “voter fraud”–which Trump still blames for his loss in the Popular Vote. (Donald, you’ve won the Presidency with Electoral College votes. But never forget that millions more of us preferred somebody else. We won’t. ) [This article was one of many to pop up](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/05/election-day-violence-donald-trump-poll-watchers). > [@](#): > > Donald Trump’s claims of “large-scale” voter fraud have prompted officials across the political spectrum to warn about the dangers of vigilante poll monitors amid fears of confrontations or even violence on US election day. > > As opinion polls tightened this week between Trump and Hillary Clinton ahead of Tuesday’s presidential vote, there are concerns of chaos following his claims, without serious evidence, that the election could be “rigged” and his refusal to say if he will accept the outcome… > > The nation’s most prominent anti-government militia and a neo-Nazi group have also announced plans to send their members to monitor for voter fraud outside the polls… > > Reports from Republican officials in some battleground states suggest a broad swell of public concern over voter fraud – and a new eagerness among Republican voters to monitor the voting process. In Arizona, more than 1,000 local Republicans have signed up to be poll watchers, a fivefold increase since the last presidential election, state party spokesman Tim Sifert said, though it’s not clear how many will actually show up. > > In Fort Worth, Texas, the county Republican party office has been fielding calls from supporters about poll watching, and they now have enough volunteers to put a Republican in some role in all of the county’s 346 voting locations, county chairman Tim O’Hare said. The number of Republican volunteers in previous years was “not even close”, he said. “In any modern time, we’ve never had somebody at every spot.” White violence against non-whites has more historical precedent than those fearsome Black Panthers. Still, enough Arizonans turned out to dump the loathsome Arpaio. Interesting coincidence: Tarrant County (Fort Worth) is the only Texas urban county to go to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/68 "2016-12-27T15:53:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Read it again, “pumped up” refers to **unfounded** fears. Many relatives and co-workers (some of them black) [pointed at what Trump was saying as one important reason for the fears](http://www.vox.com/world/2016/10/26/13412050/donald-trump-rigged-elections-violence). I voted early because I already was for years in the early vote list, and I did point at the fears to be mostly exaggerated. It could had been an issue only in states that Trump had pointed out as places for his goons to be more active like in Pennsylvania. But, what I do think it took place is that by then most of the media harped on this and the fear expanded to many across America, and to a good number of Democratic voters. > > It has to be added also that in Arizona a more prosaic fear was also at work: the primaries were grossly mismanaged by the current Republican administration, so on that on election day many people that were of less means could not risk their employment, the fear then was more basic: getting stuck for hours in line like in the primaries and end up giving up like many did and deciding to go back to work instead. This is very interesting. You cannot cite a single news story of legitimate violence against voters of color. All you can cite is a liberal website that speculates there could be violence. It sounds more like liberal paranoia. Or are you saying that the Black men you know are so effeminate that they would cower down if they thought there might be intimidation? All the Black men I know would take it as a challenge and go vote. I play a lot of pickup basketball and am usually the only white person on the court. My friends never expressed anything like what you are claiming. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/69 "2016-12-27T16:22:52Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > This is very interesting. You cannot cite a single news story of legitimate violence against voters of color. All you can cite is a liberal website that speculates there could be violence. It sounds more like liberal paranoia. Or are you saying that the Black men you know are so effeminate that they would cower down if they thought there might be intimidation? All the Black men I know would take it as a challenge and go vote. I play a lot of pickup basketball and am usually the only white person on the court. My friends never expressed anything like what you are claiming. I’m sure your “friends” know you well enough to avoid discussing politics. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/70 "2016-12-27T16:33:46Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > This is very interesting. You cannot cite a single news story of legitimate violence against voters of color. All you can cite is a liberal website that speculates there could be violence. It sounds more like liberal paranoia. Or are you saying that the Black men you know are so effeminate that they would cower down if they thought there might be intimidation? All the Black men I know would take it as a challenge and go vote. I play a lot of pickup basketball and am usually the only white person on the court. My friends never expressed anything like what you are claiming. :rolleyes: Still not understanding what I said so you reach for the strawman in an attempt to divide others. What I really said is that most indeed raised to the challenge and did vote. Do you understand what voting early Means? Do you understand that I was telling you that the fear some had was unfounded and therefore there was no need indeed for a “news story of legitimate violence”? Or do we have to assume that you do not know what “Pump up” and “unfounded” means? Another thing that you showed also was even ignorance of what I have said before, the point about the media raising fear was not to point out that they were doing good there, but that the effort from Trump to seed uncertainty and fear was maximized by reports that show how a lot of the media focused to make the election a horse race, and that is not talking nice about the media BTW. Still, most minorities did vote but just enough got worried (and it was not just democratic minorities) enough by the news, add just basic delays and vote suppression dick moves by Republicans in battle ground states, add then a bit of complacency because news also reported a likely Clinton win and then just enough Democrats don’t show up in a few states to allow El Trompo to win the electoral college. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/71 "2016-12-28T02:15:19Z")
Well this is different. [North Carolina’s Democracy Ranked On Par With Cuba](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-carolina-no-longer-democracy_us_585db3e7e4b0de3a08f5699f). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/72 "2016-12-28T02:57:39Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Well this is different. [North Carolina’s Democracy Ranked On Par With Cuba](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-carolina-no-longer-democracy_us_585db3e7e4b0de3a08f5699f). If it was on the internet, it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/73 "2016-12-28T19:23:37Z")
That electoral integrity report looked credible until they came out with that laugher. Gerrymandering has been the norm in the US since the founding, and an elected legislature can limit a governors’ powers all it wants, being elected and all, assuming the governor’s powers are not defined in the state constitution but subject to legislative discretion. I’ve never understood why “electoral integrity” organizations seem to love executive power so much. There have been so many places where executives have overstepped their bounds and been removed by another branch of government, yet these liberal groups always act as if that was subverting democracy. I guess they are used to the idea that most of the liberal base in any country only cares about electing executives, and so have internalized the idea that only the executive has true popular legitimacy. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/74 "2016-12-28T19:43:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That electoral integrity report looked credible until they came out with that laugher. Gerrymandering has been the norm in the US since the founding, and an elected legislature can limit a governors’ powers all it wants, being elected and all, assuming the governor’s powers are not defined in the state constitution but subject to legislative discretion. Gerrymandering is much more of an art form and has been used by Republicans to limit the voice of minorities in government as well as to maintain its failing grip on power. The NC governor debacle may be technically legal but not ethical or moral in any sense. “Our guy won! Yay! Let’s give him more power!.. Our guy lost! Boo! Let’s strip his powers down!” ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/75 "2016-12-28T20:03:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think that’s a political problem, but from a policy perspective it makes perfect sense. It sucks to be near poor, but in a world of limited resources you can’t take care of everyone who is merely uncomfortable. You have to prioritize the truly impoverished first. It doesn’t make sense if they don’t vote. Doing that ensures that you’re not in power to enact your agenda for anyone else in the future. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/76 "2016-12-29T15:45:01Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The NC governor debacle may be technically legal but not ethical or moral in any sense. “Our guy won! Yay! Let’s give him more power!.. Our guy lost! Boo! Let’s strip his powers down!” I think they learned that technique from Massachusetts: [2010 United States Senate special election in Massachusetts - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_special_election_in_Massachusetts,_2010#Appointment) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559/77 "2016-12-29T16:04:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think they learned that technique from Massachusetts: [2010 United States Senate special election in Massachusetts - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_special_election_in_Massachusetts,_2010#Appointment) This was done by a Democratic majority of sufficient number to override Romney’s veto. It was not done in a special session called without notifying the opposition party and it merely required a special election, the governor was free to make an appointment until the special election. Seems quite tame compared to the NC fiasco. Of course, they’re close enough to satisfy the gods of bothsidesdoitism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-is-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-the-democratic-party/775559.md?page=3)