# Trump -- (lack of) intelligence/personality (disorders) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [October 14, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569 "2023-10-14T15:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/121 "2023-10-17T08:25:16Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > I’d be more inclined to believe that his staff hired the sign-holders and supplied them with the signs. > [@Horatius](#): > > But how much of that is Trump, and how much is it the people Trump hired? Trump clearly does not do everything his advisors tell him to. So I give him some degree of “credit” for greenlighting a stunt like the pretend union rally. He understands something of right-wing media, and the ignorance of his supporters. But, in my view, the autoworkers rally and the signs _do_ smell like a Trump idea to me. Trump clearly loves the adjulation of a crowd more than anything. And one of the first signs we saw prominently held up at Trump rallies was “Blacks for Trump”, which definitely has the hand of Trump all over it (and his understanding of what multi-ethnic support means; that a whole demographic either likes you or not, and it’s not about issues). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/122 "2023-10-17T11:27:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, no, sharks ARE stupid. They’re very good at what they do; it’s just that what they do doesn’t involve any intelligence. It involves strong jaws, and a keen scent for blood, and lots and lots and lots of teeth, and sharks are very good at all of those things. Of course, in the literal and obvious sense, both sharks and Trump are stupid, yet both are quite successful. Both observations are done to death. That’s why I made a broader analogy (a type of rhetorical device) to suggest that “stupid” in the literal sense isn’t the most illuminating way to talk about apex predators. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/123 "2023-10-17T12:05:11Z")
I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say that he’s taking advantage of the stupid, or the “rubes” as you call it. Rather, he tapped into a rich vein of desperation in white, blue-collar, and rural areas. I mean, those wannabe coal miners weren’t coal miners because they deliberately chose to move to some small town in the West Virginia mountains and become coal miners. They’re coal miners because they were born there, and that’s what people in the town have done for generations. They don’t know anything else. They’re casualties of changing economic conditions- coal isn’t really viable as a power generation fuel like it used to be, and as a result, there’s less demand for coal and by extension, coal miners. But these folks don’t really know any of that- all they really know is that people from _elsewhere_ are coming in, shutting down the mines, and leaving them without any means to support their families or communities. It’s a tough problem to solve- we obviously don’t want coal as a primary energy source, but nor do we want to just leave the former miners mired in poverty due to this sea change in energy production either. So what does Trump do? Try and solve it in a compassionate, yet environmentally friendly and economically sound way? Of course not. He just tells them what they want to hear, and out of their deep desperation, they flock to him. There’s also a big element of a sort of misapplied Occam’s Razor that goes on with this crowd- when everyone is telling you something’s complicated, and someone like Trump shows up and says the solution is simple, they’re more likely to go with his idea than the complicated ones. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/124 "2023-10-17T12:40:16Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > My take: > > He’s definitely a character that could have been conjured by a triumvirate of William Golding, Peter Benchley, and George Orwell My take: He exhibits all the traits of a Malignant Narcissist, probably the most dangerous personality disorder you can have when you are holding vast power. [**What to Know about Malignant Narcissism**](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/malignant-narcissist) > In the popular conception, malignant narcissism is **a form of narcissistic personality disorder that is highly abusive**. People with this personality supposedly get a sense of satisfaction from hurting others and may manipulate people or lie to gain money, acclaim, and other things they desire. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/125 "2023-10-17T16:34:46Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > My take: He exhibits all the traits of a Malignant Narcissist, probably the most dangerous personality disorder you can have when you are holding vast power. Not snarky; genuinely asking: what do you figure is the most dangerous one for someone who _isn’t_ holding vast power? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/126 "2023-10-17T17:40:36Z")
The same but, since that isn’t relative to the future of this nation and the world, it’s not a vital issue for me. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/127 "2023-10-17T21:20:42Z")
I submit for your attention the Poetry of Donald J. Trump, Special Fly Paper Edition. It was a big hit among the rubes in Adele, Iowa yesterday. > [@The Poetry of Donald J. Trump -- Special Fly Paper Edition](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poetry-of-donald-j-trump-special-fly-paper-edition/991708): > > You knew this was coming, right? Trump speaking in Iowa on October 16, 2023. He was distracted by some flies, which prompted this digression: I didn’t know you had flies here in Iowa I hate flies Now I’ll get in trouble For saying that. Cruelty to Animals No, It’s true. You know, I said the other day I was at a place And there’s a beautiful place But They had too many flies And I said “Get fly paper!” They said "Sir, They’re not allowed to sell it anymore Because of Cruelty t… And remember Trump’s famous “nuclear power” speech (for reference, on July 19, 2016, at the Sun City Magnolia Hall in South Carolina): > Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible." Regarding Trump’s intelligence and level of discourse, and the intelligence of his adoring base of slack-jawed imbeciles, I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/128 "2023-10-17T22:15:59Z")
I don’t know if I can respond to this in the other thread, so I’m responding here. > He also claims Mar-a-Lago is “the most expensive house, probably, in the world” and adds that it’s worth as much as $1.5 billion. I sincerely hope I’m not hijacking, but I can’t help but comment on this quote. Trump sounds like a six-year-old. ‘Mar-a-lago is the most expensive house in the world! It’s worth 15 bajillionkilliongoogillion dollars!’ ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/129 "2023-10-17T22:42:33Z")
Totally appropriate for this thread. Thanks for thinking about it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/130 "2023-10-22T16:07:37Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Of course, in the literal and obvious sense, both sharks and Trump are stupid, yet both are quite successful. Sharks succeed at eating fish. What’s the comparable success for Trump? He repeatedly failed in his business endeavors. He came in second place in both of his elections. He failed in two marriages. Trump’s successes have all been things that other people handed to him, whether it was his father giving him his money, Tony Schwartz ghostwriting his book, Mark Burnett giving him his TV show, or the Republicans giving him the presidency after he lost the election. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/131 "2023-10-22T16:14:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He failed in two marriages. Though, in his own mind, I’m sure that he saw that as “I upgraded to a younger, hotter wife.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/132 "2023-10-22T16:14:07Z")
I’d say trump succeeds in surfing on the backs of others. I don’t care what his actual net worth is; hell, it might well be negative. But he _has_ successfully lived very high on the hog for a very long time. Far longer and higher than I ever have or ever will. The real magic is he seems to have a way of creating the wave that he then surfs. And does it repeatedly in different circumstances. Always the same basic play, but he can run it with a lot of detailed variations. Which play seems to utterly confound the defenses of a hefty fraction of all people. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/133 "2023-10-22T16:24:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But he _has_ successfully lived very high on the hog for a very long time. Far longer and higher than I ever have or ever will. > > The real magic is he seems to have a way of creating the wave that he then surfs. Yes, Trump has literally been rich his entire life. He was born rich. And that’s my point. Trump didn’t make himself rich. He didn’t create his wealth. He didn’t even do a good job of keeping the wealth he was given. Saying Trump achieved success because he’s rich is like saying Charles Windsor achieved success because he’s the King. If I had been handed the opportunities Trump was handed, I’m confident I would have done better with them than he has. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/134 "2023-10-22T17:31:51Z")
He got himself elected president. In the long run this will probably turn out to be his downfall. But as an achievement, it’s not nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/135 "2023-10-22T17:34:19Z")
If you have no scruples, no ethics, no honesty and no shame, it’s astonishing what you can accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/136 "2023-10-22T17:55:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Sharks succeed at eating fish. What’s the comparable success for Trump? He repeatedly failed in his business endeavors. He came in second place in both of his elections. He failed in two marriages. He repeated his con to the point of becoming President of the United States, has a large and dangerous quasi-religious cult following, has hundreds if not thousands of people going prison for crimes related to keeping him in power. In spite of having been impeached twice, he is still eligible to run for President, and is currently the leading candidate for a major political party, and may very well become President for one more term (and possibly additional illegal terms). He is backed by corrupt members of all 3 branches of government including the judiciary, all the way up to the Supreme Court. He has neither been convicted of a crime, and it’s not a given that he will be. If you’re focused on his weaknesses as a businessman, then you’re not considering what his real and significant strengths are, as well as his track record of surviving threats and gaining power. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/137 "2023-10-22T20:42:22Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > He got himself elected president. Did he really? Did Trump have a hand in creating our current electoral system which heavily favors Republicans? My point is that all of the things he’s done have actually been the work of other people who then handed the prize to Trump. So how much credit does Trump deserve for these things? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/138 "2023-10-22T20:57:19Z")
Are you arguing that he had nothing to do with it, could have happened to anyone similarly privileged, it’s just a coincidence? Because it didn’t happen to anyone similar. He clearly does some things exceptionally well, even of those things are just manipulating people to keep doing things for him and giving him stuff. Sure, he relies on privilege and connections, but that he hasn’t failed sooner, harder, and more often, and hasn’t been jailed, suggests some talent—though it’s a stretch to attribute brains to the man. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/139 "2023-10-22T21:13:18Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > He clearly does some things exceptionally well, even of those things are just manipulating people to keep doing things for him and giving him stuff. The major thing he does exceptionally well is his irrepressibly confident bluster, and it arises not from any sort of intelligence, but from a complete absence of self-awareness and a pathological narcissism. Not only is this behaviour not indicative of intelligence, it isn’t even a “skill”, it’s more of personality defect and a disconnect from reality. The problem for America is that while half the population snickers at the obviously transparent bullshit, the other half are either willing to overlook it for partisan reasons or, sadly, are in slack-jawed admiration of it ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569/140 "2023-10-22T21:18:47Z")
There’s also this: > **[Post turtle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_turtle)** > > Post turtle is a phrase that has been used in political discourse of various countries, particularly in North America, based on an old joke about the leader of a group (such as the US president) being comparable to a turtle balanced on top of a fence post. > Various politicians have been referenced by the joke or used the joke, including Bill Clinton, George W Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden. > An old rancher pinched his hand in a squeeze gate to the point of needing stiches. While ... > [@](#): > > An old rancher pinched his hand in a squeeze gate to the point of needing stiches. While his doctor was stiching him up their conversation came around to politics, when the doctor asked the old man what he thought of the current President. > > The rancher responded by saying he thought the President was no more than a “Post Turtle.” > > He further explained, “When you’re driving down an old country road and you come up upon a turtle balanced on a fence post, THAT’s a post turtle.” > > Noting the curious look on the doctor’s face, he realized that the doctor still did not understand, so he continued, “You know he didn’t have the ability to get there himself, he has no idea how he got there or what he’s doing, he has no natural ability to accomplish anything from there, and you can’t help but wonder what idiot put him there. You can only pity him, for the injuries he’ll receive when he falls from that post.” Yeah. I first heard it about Bush 43 – and it fit. It fits again. All the buffoonery, but now with three times the demagoguery! But this puckered sphincter … hasn’t fallen … [other than up] yet. Stay tuned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-lack-of-intelligence-personality-disorders/991569.md?page=8)