# Trump Magically Turns NFL Games Into Anti-Trump Rallies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216 "2017-09-24T20:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/181 "2017-09-25T21:17:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > John Kelly isn’t too happy now… > > [http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/politics/donald-trump-john-kelly-nfl/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/politics/donald-trump-john-kelly-nfl/index.html) Hopefully Kelly whips some discipline and order into our President. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/182 "2017-09-25T21:22:09Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Hopefully Kelly whips some discipline and order into our President. He’s been “whipping” Trump for two months now, and this is what we got. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/183 "2017-09-25T21:25:04Z")
The only thing Kelly could do that would make Trump a disciplined, ordered thinker, is to surgically swap brains with him. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/184 "2017-09-25T21:31:35Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > He’s been “whipping” Trump for two months now, and this is what we got. He needs to keep whipping. Trump has had a chip on his shoulder against the NFL since the 1970s. But Kelly’s whipping isn’t just about the NFL, it’s about order, discipline, teamwork. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/185 "2017-09-25T22:08:04Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > … > And while the freedoms for which those citizens died include free speech, it does not include freedom from the private consequences of that speech. However, when the President of the United States gets involved in calling for the abridgment of that First Amendment right, I believe it crosses the line into a violation of his duty to support the Constitution… > Not really. What’s disgraceful is that Trump doesn’t recognize the value of free speech and protest when it’s something he disagrees with and that he would vulgarly and shamelessly refer publicly to American citizens as sons-of-bitches because he doesn’t like their message or chosen method of protest. It’s just unbecoming and disrespectful of the dignity of the office he currently holds. I agree with EVERYTHING you said. ALL of it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/186 "2017-09-25T22:15:44Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > He needs to keep whipping. Trump has had a chip on his shoulder against the NFL since the 1970s. But Kelly’s whipping isn’t just about the NFL, it’s about order, discipline, teamwork. Yup, that Buffalo Bills nonsense. And then he went with the USFL which crashed and burned. The petty bastard never gets over anything. And with Trump just forget al about order, discipline, and teamwork. You may as well try to describe Lobachevskian geometry to a termite. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/187 "2017-09-25T22:26:54Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > until around 2009 teams were not on the field for the anthem. What changed was the pentagon started paying teams to “salute the troops” Of course the pentagon kept the payments quiet until someone dug that info up. According to [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/nfl-sideline-anthem/), the someone who dug that up was Jeff Flake, the Pub senator from AZ: > [@](#): > > The practice of “paid patriotism” came to light on 30 April 2015, when Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) released a statement chiding the New Jersey Army National Guard for paying between $97,000 and $115,000 to the New York Jets for a series of promotions involving military personnel. That November, Flake and fellow Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain issued a report stating that the Defense Department had been paying for patriotic displays in football and other sports between 2011 and 2014: > > “Contrary to the public statements made by DOD and the NFL, the majority of the contracts — 72 of the 122 contracts we analyzed — clearly show that DOD paid for patriotic tributes at professional football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and soccer games. These paid tributes included on-field color guard, enlistment and reenlistment ceremonies, performances of the national anthem, full-field flag details, ceremonial first pitches͕ and puck drops. The National Guard paid teams for the “opportunity” to sponsor military appreciation nights and to recognize its birthday. It paid the Buffalo Bills to sponsor its Salute to the Service game. DOD even paid teams for the “opportunity” to perform surprise welcome home promotions for troops returning from deployments and to recognize wounded warriors. While well intentioned, we wonder just how many of these displays included a disclaimer that these events were in fact sponsored by the DOD at taxpayer expense. Even with that disclosure, it is hard to understand how a team accepting taxpayer funds to sponsor a military appreciation game, or to recognize wounded warriors or returning troops, can be construed as anything other than paid patriotism.” The quote from the report doesn’t directly say that players standing at attention during the anthem are doing so because of “paid patriotism” but it certainly implies it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/188 "2017-09-25T22:52:25Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > In what way is disrespecting the national anthem “making America great”? I’d really like to hear your thought process on this. Why shouldn’t they take it a step further and burn an American flag while the anthem is playing? That might get them even more face time on TV. God, you’re an idiot. The correct music for a flag-burning ceremony is “Taps,” not the Star-Spangled Banner. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/189 "2017-09-26T00:47:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > (voice from the clouds) You’re welcome. > > Life is too short to worry about shit like this. **We’ve got a madman with access to nuclear weapons, not to mention that North Korean guy.** We’ve got a political party hell bent on denying health care to tens of millions of people, we’ve got millions of Americans cleaning up after three major hurricanes, and we’ve got ever-mounting proof that the Russians have denied us a fair election. I don’t care if an athlete salutes the flag, flips it off, stands, kneels, lays down, or falls asleep during the anthem. It just isn’t important. No, I think we should worry about the North Korean situation – a lot. And not just because of what might happen militarily but also in terms of what America might look like under Trump the War President. Trump made it pretty clear: he has no problem using nationalist symbolism as a way to tell his critics to shut up. He just needs an excuse to actually get them to shut up. Do you see where I’m going with this? Trust me, North Korea and the NFL are very much related. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/190 "2017-09-26T00:48:02Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > There were people in this thread claiming that since it wasn’t in any negotiated union agreements, the NFL couldn’t punish players for it. This shows that they can. Or “may” if you prefer. Does it? As far as I can tell, it shows that they “may” punish players who fail to be on the field by the start of the anthem; I see that; it’s spelled out. But what I _don’t_ see where it shows that they “may” punish players for anything else; I just see where it spells out that the players _should_ do X and Y and Z, just like I see where it spells out that part about how they “may” be punished if they don’t, ah, Q. So where do you think you see one of them there silver bullets? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/191 "2017-09-26T01:34:26Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > There were people in this thread claiming that since it wasn’t in any negotiated union agreements, the NFL couldn’t punish players for it. This shows that they can. Or “may” if you prefer. The only thing that MAY be punished is not being on the field by the time the anthem is sang. Sitting, kneeling, or jerking off in the bushes? None of that is covered under “Failure to be on the field before the National Anthem”. Yes, three teams sat in the locker room. They were ok as well, as the league spokesman quoted earlier absolved them of any punishment before the games started. Keep trying though. It’s like watching a puppy try to swim for the first time, but this time you’re happy to watch the puppy drown. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/192 "2017-09-26T01:45:27Z")
Despite Sarah Sanders’ valiant efforts to deflect, the vast majority of questions during the [WH press conference](https://news.google.com/news/video/vzsIpPjN4sA/dm9sub8pwUEwvCMlY8umHcv95E7KM?hl=en&ned=us) focused on Trump’s tweets about the NFL, NASCAR, and “sons of bitches.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/193 "2017-09-26T02:01:59Z")
Any mention of the epidemic of police brutality that sparked this protest in the first place, or is everyone still concerned with ceremony and decorum and scandal? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/194 "2017-09-26T02:05:07Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Any mention of the epidemic of police brutality that sparked this protest in the first place, or is everyone still concerned with ceremony and decorum and scandal? “_shrug_ There is no police brutality problem. If THOSE people just obeyed cops and stopped breaking laws, they wouldn’t get shot. Simple as that. What’s for lunch?” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/195 "2017-09-26T02:47:13Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Confederate history, by definition and choice of the Confederates, is not the history of the United States. I, as an American, do not feel it is within the US governments authority to maintain the histories of a country that defined itself _against_ America and waged war. Is the honoring of the Nation’s enemies even allowed under the Constitution? Yes, it is. What section of the Constitution do you imagine would forbid it? Moreover, the fact of the matter was that while the Confederate states purported to secede from the Union and form their own country, the Union’s position was that such succession was not possible and the states remained part of the country. And the Union’s view ultimately prevailed, in the famous case of Lee v. Grant. > [@](#): > > If so, I demand equal time for Nazi tank commanders, Vietnamese generals, Al Qeada leaders, and notable Britons from the War of 1812 to be so honored. And if your retort is that these aren’t American groups, well, we need to honor the Americans who joined the enemy in their glorious cause. Demand away. Who’s stopping you? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/196 "2017-09-26T02:52:36Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > However, when the President of the United States gets involved in calling for the abridgment of that First Amendment right, I believe it crosses the line into a violation of his duty to support the Constitution. Not that I’m surprised that Trump has no respect for the Constitution or the values of our country. What I’m saying is that the First Amendment doesn’t protect those players from being fired for not representing their teams in the manner their employers wish them to, it is very wrong for the POTUS to encourage that. Because why? You seem to think the President has some sort of duty of neutrality or something, or that this somehow affects his constitutional duties. But the disorganization of your thoughts is obvious: You concede that the First Amendment doesn’t protect those players from being fired for not representing their teams in the manner their employers wish them to, but yet believe that somehow Trump’s encouraging that action violates his duty of constitutional support. The First Amendment doesn’t apply to the players’ being fired, but somehow it still affects Trump’s actions? Do you want to rethink that claim? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/197 "2017-09-26T02:56:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Y > And the Union’s view ultimately prevailed, in the famous case of Lee v. Grant. That was funny. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/198 "2017-09-26T04:50:38Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > There were people in this thread claiming that since it wasn’t in any negotiated union agreements, the NFL couldn’t punish players for it. This shows that they can. Or “may” if you prefer. The NFL can write down any policy they want to without anyone caring. The league can fine teams or take away draft picks for not being on the field during the anthem, and the teams have no legal recourse. The league can suspend coaches or other team officials (considered management and not represented by a union) and those folks just have to sit and take it. But if the league tries to suspend a player for a protest, the union is going to sue them for discipline outside of what’s allowed by the CBA. And I’m betting they’d win easily. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/199 "2017-09-26T05:02:44Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > And then he went with the USFL which crashed and burned. Which crashed and burned in no small part due to his greediness, signing stars to ridiculous money to the detriment of the league – almost all the other owners could not keep up. Instead of raising the tide resulting in lifting all the ships, he flooded the bay so quickly that everyone drowned. The league folded in the very year they were going to try playing in the fall and go head to head against the NFL (they had been playing in the spring). Result: no league, no merger, no NFL team for Trump. That happened in 1986. Meanwhile over in the NFL… In 1995 the NFL expanded with two new teams, Carolina and Jacksonville. In 1999, one more new (kind of) NFL team, Cleveland. In 2002, one more new team, Houston. The NFL now had 32 teams, whereas during the USFL years, 1983-1985, it had 28. 4 new teams, but none for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/200 "2017-09-26T05:04:29Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > God, you’re an idiot. The correct music for a flag-burning ceremony is “Taps,” not the Star-Spangled Banner. :dubious: Say what? You’re joking, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=11)