# Trump Magically Turns NFL Games Into Anti-Trump Rallies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216 "2017-09-24T20:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/281 "2017-09-26T17:39:07Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That was why it was you (plural). I could have said “when one doesn’t stand for the anthem” but I really dislike using that form of phrase. I got it, I got it. Look. My feeling is this: I understand the place of public ritual. I just personally think it’s hollow. Same with my feelings of any kind of love and expression of it. Your love for someone, a country, a God, etc., manifests itself in many different forms. It is ludicrous, to me, to assign a specific manner of showing that sort of love. Some people like to wave flags. Some people love to say “I love you.” Some people just prefer to show their love and not express it vocally or ritualistically. Those are all valid ways to show love and solidarity. I think expecting public expressions like that cheapens the feeling and makes it easy for those who really don’t give a shit to hide behind the ritual. Any traitor can hide behind standing up for the national anthem and wearing a lapel pin. Any cheat can hide behind “I love yous” and luxurious gifts to their spouse while fucking someone on the side. It don’t mean shit. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/282 "2017-09-26T17:40:58Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > 1960s and flag burning, and 2010s and sitting for the National Anthem, they are protected rights free speech expressions. I don’t have to like or agree with what you’re doing (the generic you), but you’re free to do it. Of course. And other people are free to object to it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/283 "2017-09-26T17:42:01Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No. It is not demanding loyalty. It is expecting it. Do you see the difference? > > When you stand for the national anthem, together with all the other people around you, of all colors and political creeds, you express unity. You all belong, you are all Americans, and you identify with the country. Whatever color or party or political persuasion you are. > > When you don’t stand for the anthem, for whatever stupid reason, you are separating yourself from others. And then, pathetically, you (plural) have the audacity to claim that those that are disgusted at your behavior are “dividers”. I choose to be separate and divided from the huge portion of this country that voted for Trump. I’ve given up hope. There are too many of them and they are too disgusting. I’ll do the best I can under current conditions, but I no longer give two fucks about half my fellow Americans. Maybe I’ll feel better in a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/284 "2017-09-26T17:45:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Of course. And other people are free to object to it. And still others are free to object to your objection. So what? What do you think your objection gets you? You don’t care about people getting offended by things Trump does so why should anyone care about your feelings? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/285 "2017-09-26T17:45:31Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I choose to be separate and divided from the huge portion of this country that voted for Trump. I’ve given up hope. There are too many of them and they are too disgusting. I’ll do the best I can under current conditions, but I no longer give two fucks about half my fellow Americans. Maybe I’ll feel better in a few days. Try skull fucking. You might feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/286 "2017-09-26T17:45:42Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No. It is not demanding loyalty. It is expecting it. Do you see the difference? No, it is demanding it. If people aren’t free to refuse, it was not a request, it was a demand. Do you see the difference? > [@Okrahoma](#): > > When you stand for the national anthem, together with all the other people around you, of all colors and political creeds, you express unity. You all belong, you are all Americans, and you identify with the country. Whatever color or party or political persuasion you are. Black americans are finding it difficult to feel that they belong, that they are Americans (as you and others use the term) and they have trouble identifying with a country who pays people that kill them in disproportionate numbers to the population at large. Do you see understand that? Do you care? > [@Okrahoma](#): > > When you don’t stand for the anthem, for whatever stupid reason, you are separating yourself from others. And then, pathetically, you (plural) have the audacity to claim that those that are disgusted at your behavior are “dividers”. Can there ever be a good reason not to stand for the anthem, in your opinion? And many black people feel that they are _already_ separated from others; that was the whole point of the protest. And they have evidence to back up why they feel that way. And they’d like to not feel that way, and feel as you described. But every time they ask, you tell them to fuck off. You even criticize they way they discuss the problem, so that you don’t have to discuss the actual problem. And that’s why they protested. If this country would spend as much energy stopping police from killing people who don’t need to be killed as they are bitching about the form of the protest, everyone would stand for the anthem again. But some people would rather bitch about the protest than about the problem. Like you. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/287 "2017-09-26T17:47:03Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Try skull fucking. You might feel better. Okay. Good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/288 "2017-09-26T17:47:29Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I got it, I got it. > > Look. My feeling is this: I understand the place of public ritual. I just personally think it’s hollow. Same with my feelings of any kind of love and expression of it. Your love for someone, a country, a God, etc., manifests itself in many different forms. It is ludicrous, to me, to assign a specific manner of showing that sort of love. Some people like to wave flags. Some people love to say “I love you.” Some people just prefer to show their love and not express it vocally or ritualistically. Those are all valid ways to show love and solidarity. I think expecting public expressions like that cheapens the feeling and makes it easy for those who really don’t give a shit to hide behind the ritual. Any traitor can hide behind standing up for the national anthem and wearing a lapel pin. Any cheat can hide behind “I love yous” and luxurious gifts to their spouse while fucking someone on the side. It don’t mean shit. Waving a flag requires effort. You have to go get/buy the flag, keep it stored, bring it out on the specific occasion, and wave it. Standing for the anthem requires an absolute minimum amount of effort. It is an effortless affirmation of unity. Unity, as Americans, is a very important value for the country. However silly the tradition for standing for the anthem may seem to you, it is there today. Specifically NOT standing for the anthem is an affirmation of separating yourself from your other fellow Americans, for whatever reason. It is an affirmation of disunity. And as I said, Trump’s sharpening that point is a brilliant (if arguably cynical) political move that resonates extremely well in most of the country. As you, living outside the echo chamber, probably realize. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/289 "2017-09-26T17:47:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, it is demanding it. If people aren’t free to refuse, it was not a request, it was a demand. Do you see the difference? No it is not a demand, it is expressing disagreement, with hyperbole. He’s blowing off steam. Which is beneath the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/290 "2017-09-26T17:49:32Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Do you hate this guy too? Is he also a “son of a bitch”? > > [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wwii-vet-97-took-knee-support-nfl-protests-photo-goes-n804576](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wwii-vet-97-took-knee-support-nfl-protests-photo-goes-n804576) I predict that this question will be almost universally ignored by anyone bitching about people taking a knee during the anthem, because it complicates their simple narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/291 "2017-09-26T17:50:01Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > And as I said, Trump’s sharpening that point is a brilliant (if arguably cynical) political move that resonates extremely well in most of the country. The problem is that it resonates with about 50% of the country’s population, and as such, his is a stance of division. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/292 "2017-09-26T17:50:56Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Waving a flag requires effort. You have to go get/buy the flag, keep it stored, bring it out on the specific occasion, and wave it. OK, you can substitute “standing for the national anthem” there. It’s the exact same point I’m making, that “love” manifests itself in different ways. > [@](#): > > And as I said, Trump’s sharpening that point is a brilliant (if arguably cynical) political move that resonates extremely well in most of the country. As you, living outside the echo chamber, probably realize. Oh, yes, that is exactly what it is. I said as much before and I said as much that’s why it scares the shit out of me. It is a president willfully, purposefully, and cynically dividing a country. I mean, that’s completely transparent. I’m not sure I’d call it “brilliant” by any stretch, but it’s obvious as to what he is doing. And I’m afraid of what comes next. It really feels like it’s straight out of the authoritarian playbook. And that’s why I personally try to be very careful in not alienating the Republicans from my life, because it feeds into that hatred and divisiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/293 "2017-09-26T17:52:26Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > The problem is that it resonates with about 50% of the country’s population, and as such, his is a stance of division. I believe it is a lot more than 50%. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/294 "2017-09-26T17:53:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I predict that this question will be almost universally ignored by anyone bitching about people taking a knee during the anthem, because it complicates their simple narrative. It was also pretty ignored that the singer of the anthem before the Seahawk/Titans game on Sunday took a knee when she finished singing. People seemed okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/295 "2017-09-26T17:53:38Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, yes, that is exactly what it is. I said as much before and I said as much that’s why it scares the shit out of me. It is a president willfully, purposefully, and cynically dividing a country. I mean, that’s completely transparent. I’m not sure I’d call it “brilliant” by any stretch, but it’s obvious as to what he is doing. As I said before, pointing out the division is not “dividing”. It is reflecting reality. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/296 "2017-09-26T17:57:00Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Try skull fucking. You might feel better. Hell of a wet spot though. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/297 "2017-09-26T17:57:12Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > No it is not a demand, it is expressing disagreement, with hyperbole. He’s blowing off steam. No, it’s a deliberate distraction from all the other fuckery that he’s embroiled in. > [@Bullitt](#): > > Which is beneath the Presidency. No, it’s the daily M.O. of this Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/298 "2017-09-26T17:58:33Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > No it is not a demand, it is expressing disagreement, with hyperbole. He’s blowing off steam. > > Which is beneath the Presidency. I have no idea who “he” is in your post, so I’m having some difficulty figuring out exactly what you thought I was writing about so that your reply makes sense. A request that, if refused, has negative repercussions is not, IMO, a request, it is a demand. “Could you please not do that? If you do, I’ll break your arm” is not a request, it’s a demand. “Expecting” people to do something is demanding it from them; it removes their choice and replaces it with your “expectation”. An expectation is something that you believe will happen. An expectation is not something that you believe may or may not happen. Becoming upset with someone for not meeting your expectations is becoming upset them with for not doing as you wished, which removes choice from the other person. Which means that no, it was a demand, not a request. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/299 "2017-09-26T17:59:15Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > As I said before, pointing out the division is not “dividing”. It is reflecting reality. I really don’t think it is. I think it’s exacerbating it. Most people just went along before, because nobody really gave a shit. Now, all of a sudden, it’s a defined political statement whether you stand or not. It wasn’t before. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/300 "2017-09-26T18:07:01Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > As I said before, pointing out the division is not “dividing”. It is reflecting reality. Insulting NFL players and their mothers for peacefully protesting is neither “pointing out the division” nor “reflecting reality”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=16)