# Trump Magically Turns NFL Games Into Anti-Trump Rallies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216 "2017-09-24T20:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/541 "2017-09-30T17:14:14Z")
Take 'em off, tie them, put them back on. Whats the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/542 "2017-10-02T17:17:28Z")
> **[CNN Anchor: NFL Owners Have Data That Support Trump’s Claim on NFL Protests...](https://freebeacon.com/politics/nfl-owners-data-support-trumps/)** > > President Donald Trump sparked a firestorm last Friday when he told an Alabama crowd that NFL owners should not tolerate and fire players who disrespect the American flag. "He went on to say that the NFL owners have research “clearly showing the president is right” when he claims the national anthem protests are one factor in TV ratings dropping. “Since the president weighed in, the owners are now dealing with a surge in ticket holder requests for refunds,” King said." ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/543 "2017-10-02T17:20:38Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [http://freebeacon.com/politics/nfl-owners-data-support-trumps/](http://freebeacon.com/politics/nfl-owners-data-support-trumps/) > > "He went on to say that the NFL owners have research “clearly showing the president is right” when he claims the national anthem protests are one factor in TV ratings dropping. > > “Since the president weighed in, the owners are now dealing with a surge in ticket holder requests for refunds,” King said." What’s your point? Deplorables giving up on the NFL? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/544 "2017-10-02T17:22:55Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [http://freebeacon.com/politics/nfl-owners-data-support-trumps/](http://freebeacon.com/politics/nfl-owners-data-support-trumps/) > > "He went on to say that the NFL owners have research “clearly showing the president is right” when he claims the national anthem protests are one factor in TV ratings dropping. > > “Since the president weighed in, the owners are now dealing with a surge in ticket holder requests for refunds,” King said." Business owners are free to prioritize money over civil rights. There’s ample precedent for it, of course: [Link.](http://www.npr.org/2016/09/29/495955920/donald-trump-plagued-by-decades-old-housing-discrimination-case) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/545 "2017-10-02T17:44:42Z")
[Ratings data suggests some people are lying about watching less football because of the protests](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/29/ratings-data-suggests-some-people-are-lying-about-watching-less-football.html): > [@](#): > > A new poll out Thursday from Seton Hall University suggested that 29 percent of Americans said they were watching less football this year. Of that group, 47 percent said it was because of players protesting the national anthem. Doing the math, that works out to 14 percent of Americans cutting down on football because of the protests. > > On first glance, that might make sense. President Trump made headlines last weekend by shaming the NFL on Twitter and saying ratings are way down. > > But that might not be the whole truth. Actual data from Nielsen suggests the total reach of the NFL last week was only down 5 percent versus last year. And this year, there have been a host of other factors that are affecting normal football fans’ viewing routines — broad-based cord-cutting and the effects of Hurricane Irma among them. > > So that big gap between polls and reality could suggest that people are simply lying to pollsters. > > It’s a phenomenon that goes back many years, where people say what they think a pollster wants to hear but do something different when they’re actually confronted with the choice. > > It’s been cited as one of the reasons that Donald Trump did better in the election than polls suggested he would. > > But something else is going on: While the number of people is relatively steady, the average person spends less time watching. That’s really no different from what’s happening with other TV shows. We know cord-cutting isn’t stopping, and more online services are airing games. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/546 "2017-10-02T18:22:35Z")
Well, there’s plenty of room for them in the closet now that the, ah, er, now that the gays are all done with it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/547 "2017-10-02T18:32:21Z")
I didn’t watch the NFL this Sunday afternoon, but because it was the fucking Jaguars again. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/548 "2017-10-02T18:36:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m more generally curious about something: are there any other contexts in which kneeling is taken as a sign of disrespect? People kneel in church, they kneel when proposing marriage, they kneel when the Queen of England bestows a knighthood, they kneel (most directly significant to this story) when [giving a flag to the surviving family of a fallen soldier](https://i.imgur.com/sd4RARP.jpg). But I can’t think of any situation where kneeling is seen as anything other than a symbol of respect, devotion, or outright subordination. Well, in the first place, Kaeperneck, who started it all, has been clear in that the gesture is intended to show his intention not to respect a flag that represents what he thinks is a country that is just peachy with blacks being shot (without justification, I presume) by cops. In the second place, just because something has one meaning in one context it doesn’t necessarily follow that it has the same meaning in every context. This is why thong bikinis are okay at the beach but not at a board meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/549 "2017-10-02T18:50:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, in the first place, Kaeperneck, who started it all, has been clear in that the gesture is intended to show his intention not to respect a flag that represents what he thinks is a country that is just peachy with blacks being shot (without justification, I presume) by cops. Actually, Kaepernick’s decision to [kneel rather than sit during the anthem was made, after discussion with a fellow NFL player and military veteran, precisely because kneeling **is** a gesture of respect:](http://www.snopes.com/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/) > [@](#): > > On 30 August 2016, the Army Times published an open letter to Kaepernick from former Seattle Seahawks player Nate Boyer, who served as a Green Beret in U.S. military actions in both Afghanistan and Iraq. […] > > Boyer and Kaepernick met after the open letter was published, and before San Francisco’s final preseason game on 2 September 2016 in San Diego — the first time the quarterback knelt in front of the bench instead of sitting during the anthem. […] > > [Boyer said:] “We sorta came to a middle ground where he would take a knee alongside his teammate. Soldiers take a knee in front of a fallen brother’s grave, you know, to show respect.” […] > > Kaepernick’s then-teammate Eric Reid joined him in kneeling for the protest prior to that game. He recalled the experience in an op-ed published by The New York Times on 25 September 2017: […] “After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former NFL player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture.” […] > > [Boyer said:] “So when I talked to them, it was mutual. Me, him, and Eric Reid [said] ‘I think maybe taking a knee would be a little more respectful. It’s still a demonstration. You’re still saying something but, people take a knee to pray.’” So Kaepernick has been very clear about choosing to combine protest with a respectful demeanor, so as not to distract from his message by offending people with what is conventionally considered a disrespectful attitude. He’s trying to draw attention to things about this country that he thinks are unjust and unworthy of it, but he’s not in fact trying to express an “intention not to respect [the] flag”. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/550 "2017-10-02T19:02:47Z")
Kaepernick has stated, “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.” He obviously intended his protest to demonstrate a lack of pride in or respect for the U.S. because within it exists a certain wrongful behavior for which he has decided to ascribe to the country as a whole. Clearly a gesture intended to show lack of respect is by definition a gesture of disrespect. Further, as your own cite states, Kaepernick himself originally intended to sit but was talked out of it by a fellow player seeking to find a middle ground between respect and disrespect. So in a sense by kneeling he’s attempting to convey a certain respect that he doesn’t really hold. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/551 "2017-10-02T19:12:48Z")
nm, already covered ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/552 "2017-10-02T19:22:51Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Ratings data suggests some people are lying about watching less football because of the protests](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/29/ratings-data-suggests-some-people-are-lying-about-watching-less-football.html): This cite shows the amount ratings are down from last year but not how much they’ve gone down in the couple weeks since Trump’s comments and entire teams started to become involved. I’ve heard and read a lot more from people outraged by this and giving up/selling/asking for refunds of tickets than I ever did over Kaepernick’s protests. It should be noted also that a 5% drop in ratings, if it correlates to a 5% drop in revenue, may well account for all or most of a team’s profit as most of its revenue is spent just operating. I wouldn’t be surprised but what a relatively sudden drop in viewership of only 12% to 15% would be enough to drive a team into insolvency, if it were to continue. (In other words, by injecting politics into their workplace, these players may well be cutting off their nose to spite their face.) ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/553 "2017-10-02T19:24:18Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [man kneeling during taps at Tomb of the Unknown Soldier](https://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/09/picture-of-man-kneeling-during-taps-at-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-is-sparking-outrage-following-nfl-protests/) > > So - disrespectful? Or was he “genuflecting”? > [@Kimstu](#): > > Actually, Kaepernick’s decision to [kneel rather than sit during the anthem was made, after discussion with a fellow NFL player and military veteran, precisely because kneeling **is** a gesture of respect:](http://www.snopes.com/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/) > > > [@](#): > > > > On 30 August 2016, the Army Times published an open letter to Kaepernick from former Seattle Seahawks player Nate Boyer, who served as a Green Beret in U.S. military actions in both Afghanistan and Iraq. […] > > > > Boyer and Kaepernick met after the open letter was published, and before San Francisco’s final preseason game on 2 September 2016 in San Diego — the first time the quarterback knelt in front of the bench instead of sitting during the anthem. […] > > > > [Boyer said:] “We sorta came to a middle ground where he would take a knee alongside his teammate. **Soldiers take a knee in front of a fallen brother’s grave, you know, to show respect.** ” […] > > > > Kaepernick’s then-teammate Eric Reid joined him in kneeling for the protest prior to that game. He recalled the experience in an op-ed published by The New York Times on 25 September 2017: […] “After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former NFL player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture.” […] > > > > [Boyer said:] “So when I talked to them, it was mutual. Me, him, and Eric Reid [said] ‘I think maybe taking a knee would be a little more respectful. It’s still a demonstration. You’re still saying something but, people take a knee to pray.’” > > So Kaepernick has been very clear about choosing to combine protest with a respectful demeanor, so as not to distract from his message by offending people with what is conventionally considered a disrespectful attitude. He’s trying to draw attention to things about this country that he thinks are unjust and unworthy of it, but he’s not in fact trying to express an “intention not to respect [the] flag”. Emphasis mine. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/554 "2017-10-02T19:32:21Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Emphasis mine. Once again: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/555 "2017-10-02T19:47:36Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Once again: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.” Pride =/= respect. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/556 "2017-10-02T19:52:13Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [http://freebeacon.com/politics/nfl-owners-data-support-trumps/](http://freebeacon.com/politics/nfl-owners-data-support-trumps/) > > "He went on to say that the NFL owners have research “clearly showing the president is right” when he claims the national anthem protests are one factor in TV ratings dropping. > > “Since the president weighed in, the owners are now dealing with a surge in ticket holder requests for refunds,” King said." I wonder how that stacks up against the waiting list that many (most?) teams have to get season tickets? And the owners do of course have the right to fire someone for pretty much any reason. But given the general competitiveness and narrow margins between winning games and losing games, I imagine they are loathe to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/557 "2017-10-02T19:53:20Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Once again: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.” This seems entirely reasonable. I’m surprised anyone is offended by it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/558 "2017-10-02T19:53:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Pride =/= respect. Weird that of all the sentences he could have quoted he picked that one and not something like “We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture.” Yeah, really weird. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/559 "2017-10-02T19:54:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Once again: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.” Pity it wasn’t Nazis kneeling, so that you could recall your commitment to free speech. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/560 "2017-10-02T19:59:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Pride =/= respect. Well, for one thing Kaepernick is wrong about the purpose of standing for the national anthem and saluting the flag, both of which are intended to honor and show respect for the country and those who’ve fallen in its service (which includes a lot of black guys, btw). So while he says pride, it’s really about respect, and most of those who objecting to him see it this way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=29)