# Trump Magically Turns NFL Games Into Anti-Trump Rallies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216 "2017-09-24T20:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/561 "2017-10-02T20:03:44Z")
Why do you get to unilaterally declare what standing for the anthem and saluting the flag means for every individual in the country? You are free to feel whatever meaning you want about it, but everyone else is entitled to the same freedom. You are not the patriotism police and America is not about forcing others to feel the way you feel. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/562 "2017-10-02T20:11:26Z")
Do any you have kids? Because parents usually love their kids and show pride in their accomplishments. They can look at their kids and hopefully see their values reflected. And they still love their kids even when the kids misbehave. But good parents don’t ignore the bad behavior of their children, they call them out on it and may even punish them for it. Very few of them say “I’m proud of my child, therefore he can do no wrong and he is above all criticism. And anyone who dares criticize my child for misbehaving is disrespectful. I love my child and I’m proud of my child so he can do no wrong.” And any child whose parents raised him with that attitude would probably grow up to be a horrible person. Maybe it has to do with the nature of love. I love my country, I’m basically proud of my country, but every now and then my country does something that I’m deeply ashamed of. Now I will call out my country when that happens and let my country know that I disapprove, but then doesn’t mean I don’t love my country and have pride in my country." ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/563 "2017-10-02T20:18:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So while he says pride, it’s really about respect, and most of those who objecting to him see it this way. And they’re wrong. In sports, you take a knee when a player, whether your teammate or an opponent, is injured and needs help. It shows respect and care and a desire that the injury heal. Don’t you think an athlete could have the same view toward the country as for a fellow athlete? We have had, and still have, quite enough countries in our world where displaying superficial acts of fealty toward a flag or an anthem was required or consequences would be serious. They have not been admirable places to live. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/564 "2017-10-02T20:24:35Z")
As far as I’m concerned, if you voted for Trump, your opinion on what is and isn’t respectful is completely meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/565 "2017-10-02T20:27:45Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, if you voted for Trump, your opinion on what is and isn’t respectful is completely meaningless. completely agreed ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/566 "2017-10-02T20:42:42Z")
Tell you what, soon as those words “liberty and justice for all” become a fact “from sea to shining sea”. I’ll not only _stand_ up, I’ll jump up, wave flags and whistle! And may we all live so long. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/567 "2017-10-02T21:27:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Tell you what, soon as those words “liberty and justice for all” become a fact “from sea to shining sea”. I’ll not only _stand_ up, I’ll jump up, wave flags and whistle! And may we all live so long. Amen. By then, you could be risking a broken hip (even if you stick the landing). Better you should encourage your progeny to make a few friends so they can hoist you gently aloft. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/568 "2017-10-02T21:31:39Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > By then, you could be risking a broken hip (even if you stick the landing). Better you should encourage your progeny to make a few friends so they can hoist you gently aloft. There’s probably no hurry, though. With people like **Okrahoma** in it, this country will _never_ be worthy of respect, much less pride. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/569 "2017-10-02T21:44:40Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > What if they are standing and flipping the bird with their hands? Still okely-dokely since they are standing? > > You are just saying that because Donny Two Scoops tweeted it and so it’s now part of your indoctrination. You lap that shit up. > > From the Commander in Tweet: > **Great solidarity for our National Anthem and for our Country. Standing with locked arms is good, kneeling is not acceptable. Bad ratings!** Interesting. A coward draft dodger (bones spurs, huh), who is in bed with Putin, who lined his pocket with Russian money for years, who attacked various veterans, who asked Russia to interfere in our elections, is scolding OTHERS on patriotism. He needs to just shut the fuck up. Fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/570 "2017-10-02T21:45:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Further, as your own cite states, Kaepernick himself originally intended to sit but was talked out of it by a fellow player seeking to find a middle ground between respect and disrespect. So in a sense by kneeling he’s attempting to convey a certain respect that he doesn’t really hold. :rolleyes: You know, it’s against NFL regulations to move goalposts like that. First you claimed, wrongly, that Kaepernick’s _“gesture is intended to show his intention not to respect [the] flag”_. Then you wiggled your claim into the bizarre and self-contradictory assertion that _“he’s attempting to convey a certain respect that he doesn’t really hold”_. If Kaepernick were actually determined to show an “intention not to respect the flag”, he could easily have done so by, you know, **persisting in the behavior that was actually interpreted as unambiguously disrespectful**. Namely, **sitting** during the national anthem. The fact that Kaepernick deliberately renounced the behavior that was seen as clearly disrespectful (sitting), in favor of a traditional gesture of respect (kneeling), makes it fairly obvious that disrespect is not the message he’s trying to convey. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/571 "2017-10-02T21:47:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > What’s your point? Deplorables giving up on the NFL? , Oh well, sucks to be them. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/572 "2017-10-02T21:57:09Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :rolleyes: You know, it’s against NFL regulations to move goalposts like that. > > First you claimed, wrongly, that Kaepernick’s _“gesture is intended to show his intention not to respect [the] flag”_. Then you wiggled your claim into the bizarre and self-contradictory assertion that _“he’s attempting to convey a certain respect that he doesn’t really hold”_. > > If Kaepernick were actually determined to show an “intention not to respect the flag”, he could easily have done so by, you know, **persisting in the behavior that was actually interpreted as unambiguously disrespectful**. Namely, **sitting** during the national anthem. > > The fact that Kaepernick deliberately renounced the behavior that was seen as clearly disrespectful (sitting), in favor of a traditional gesture of respect (kneeling), makes it fairly obvious that disrespect is not the message he’s trying to convey. If you’re going out of your way to avoid showing respect to something you are by definition disrespecting it. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/573 "2017-10-02T21:59:13Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Pity it wasn’t Nazis kneeling, so that you could recall your commitment to free speech. This bears repeating. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/574 "2017-10-02T21:59:31Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, if you voted for Trump, your opinion on what is and isn’t respectful is completely meaningless. I didn’t vote for Trump but this is ridiculous. > [@Airbeck](#): > > completely agreed So is this. > [@begbert2](#): > > With people like Okrahoma in it, this country will never be worthy of respect, much less pride. And this even moreso. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/575 "2017-10-02T22:00:35Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Why do you get to unilaterally declare what standing for the anthem and saluting the flag means for every individual in the country? You are free to feel whatever meaning you want about it, but everyone else is entitled to the same freedom. You are not the patriotism police and America is not about forcing others to feel the way you feel. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/576 "2017-10-02T22:00:49Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, if you voted for Trump, your opinion on what is and isn’t respectful is completely meaningless. Agree!!! ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/577 "2017-10-02T22:04:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If you’re going out of your way to avoid showing respect to something you are by definition disrespecting it. End of story. How is taking a knee “going out of his way”? He’s literally in the same place, and taking a knee is not a difficult thing physically to do. The only way your statement makes sense is if you define “going out of his way” as not doing precisely what you say he should be doing at this moment, which is a really strange way to define that expression. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/578 "2017-10-02T22:04:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If you’re going out of your way to avoid showing respect to something you are by definition disrespecting it. End of story. God, you don’t even know what words mean. There’s a big fucking giant swath between ‘avoiding respecting’ an ‘disrespecting’. It’s the whole premise between “If you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all” - if you can’t be nice, it’s possible not to be mean. This is all beside the point, of course - anybody who’s not a complete moron knows that genuflecting is a gesture of respect. You’re just touting manufactured outrage because you’d rather be outraged than concede that the protesters have a point. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/579 "2017-10-02T22:05:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > :rolleyes: and to you as well. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/580 "2017-10-02T22:13:57Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > How is taking a knee “going out of his way”? He’s literally in the same place, and taking a knee is not a difficult thing physically to do. > > The only way your statement makes sense is if you define “going out of his way” as not doing precisely what you say he should be doing at this moment, which is a really strange way to define that expression. Jeez! The hoops, they drive me crazy! Kaepernick has said right out loud that he cannot take pride in the country, and therefore will not participate in honoring the flag or anthem. What more do you want? If he had said, ‘Meh, I think saluting the flag and standing for the anthem are silly anachronisms’, then yeah, and argument could be made that he wasn’t disrespecting them but rather just choosing not to participate. But he has come right out and stated that the country isn’t worthy of his respect, and that it won’t be until that magical day (that exists nowhere else on earth) when racism no longer exists. Sounds pretty ‘out of his way’ to me. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=30)