# Trump Magically Turns NFL Games Into Anti-Trump Rallies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216 "2017-09-24T20:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/581 "2017-10-02T22:15:32Z")
Nope still not any definition of out of his way that makes sense. By the way, you might have something in your eye or something. You seem to be twitching for some reason… ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/582 "2017-10-02T22:17:23Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Nope still not any definition of out of his way that makes sense. By the way, you might have something in your eye or something. You seem to be twitching for some reason… Yeah, over the top silliness and refusal to face facts does that to me. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/583 "2017-10-02T22:17:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Jeez! The hoops, they drive me crazy! Kaepernick has said right out loud that he cannot take pride in the country, and therefore will not participate in honoring the flag or anthem. What more do you want? If he had said, ‘Meh, I think saluting the flag and standing for the anthem are silly anachronisms’, then yeah, and argument could be made that he wasn’t disrespecting them but rather just choosing not to participate. But he has come right out and stated that the country isn’t worthy of his respect, and that it won’t be until that magical day (that exists nowhere else on earth) when racism no longer exists. Sounds pretty ‘out of his way’ to me. :rolleyes: The dude chose the most respectful, least offensive way possible to highlight the fact that the country is in fact deeply flawed in a very unrespectable way. This isn’t hard. And honestly I don’t believe you don’t understand. You’re just being outraged because being outraged is an easy fun way to blow off the entire existence of the problems he’s protesting. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yeah, over the top silliness and refusal to face facts does that to me. Oh my god the hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/584 "2017-10-02T22:34:15Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The dude chose the most respectful, least offensive way possible to highlight the fact that the country is in fact deeply flawed in a very unrespectable way. > > This isn’t hard. And honestly I don’t believe you don’t understand. You’re just being outraged because being outraged is an easy fun way to blow off the entire existence of the problems he’s protesting. Nonsense. No one is blowing off the existence of racism, nor are they saying it’s okay. They (and I) are of the opinion that going out of your way to disrespect the country is not the right way to address the issue. They (and I) are also of the opinion that it won’t make a whit of difference either, so he’s not only tilting at windmills but choosing to disrespect to the country as a way to do it. I, myself, am not outraged in the slightest. I just think he’s another wrongheaded do-gooder trying to accomplish something good but in reality achieving nothing while fucking lots of other things up and making them worse in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/585 "2017-10-02T22:41:40Z")
I’d love to see a study about how many people (that were not pro-BLM before the “protests”) have warmer feelings toward BLM or solidarity with them as a result of the NFL/Kaepernick shenanigans. And how many (again, that were not against BLM to begin with) the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/586 "2017-10-02T22:45:42Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I’d love to see a study about how many people (that were not pro-BLM before the “protests”) have warmer feelings toward BLM or solidarity with them as a result of the NFL/Kaepernick shenanigans. > > And how many (again, that were not against BLM to begin with) the opposite. Why don’t you just come to a conclusion? That’s what you’ll stick with no matter what any study would show. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/587 "2017-10-02T22:48:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nonsense. No one is blowing off the existence of racism, nor are they saying it’s okay. They (and I) are of the opinion that going out of your way to disrespect the country is not the right way to address the issue. They (and I) are also of the opinion that it won’t make a whit of difference either, so he’s not only tilting at windmills but choosing to disrespect to the country as a way to do it. I, myself, am not outraged in the slightest. I just think he’s another wrongheaded do-gooder trying to accomplish something good but in reality achieving nothing while fucking lots of other things up and making them worse in the process. I make no claim on whether his protest will have any effect on anything. (Spoiler: of course it won’t. The protections police on trial have are systemic and would require changes to how they’re tried, which won’t happen.) The thing I dispute is whether kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful. It isn’t. Duh. The people who claim it is are doing so to smokescreen the protest with manufactured outrage so as to stifle what nonexistent hope the protest had. Which is to say we can probably trace it back to racists. I charitably assume you’re just parroting them because it’s the ‘not liberal’ thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/588 "2017-10-02T22:53:19Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > So in a sense by kneeling he’s attempting to convey a certain respect that he doesn’t really hold. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > If you’re going out of your way to avoid showing respect to something you are by definition disrespecting it. So, Kaepernick is “attempting to convey a certain respect” but at the same time “going out of [his] way to avoid showing respect”. Classic **Starving Artist** wafflegab. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/589 "2017-10-02T22:56:04Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Why don’t you just come to a conclusion? That’s what you’ll stick with no matter what any study would show. I’m pretty sure he has. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/590 "2017-10-02T23:08:10Z")
Seems to me we have witnessed attempdt to create new gestures and have them understood. One, the kneeling itself, to mean respectful dissent. And the arm lock gesture, to express solidarity without a direct endorsement. Kinda like “I’m not saying what he’s saying, but I totally understand why _he_ is and I support his right to do so.” And that’s what ever importance it has. It helps establish the legitimacy of a patriotic scolding of one’s home. As such, it stands in stark contrast to the assumption that any such gesture was inherently disrespectful. That no matter what the guy _says_ he means, he means what _they_ say he means, because of the sacred eminence of the Anthem. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/591 "2017-10-03T00:38:03Z")
I wonder how much overlap there is between the people who claim that kneeling is disrespectful and people who like to wave around Confederate flag. I bet it’s a lot. I also wonder how much overlap there is between those who claim that kneeling is being disrespectful and those who claim that waving around a Confederate flag is just a celebration of history. I bet that’s also a lot. BTW, Starving Artist and Okrahoma, if you condem men for kneeling but don’t condem men for waving around the Confederate flag (which I haven’t noticed either of you doing), then you’re a hypocritical son of a bitch. Maybe for Okrahoma I should substitute “Confederate flag” with “Nazi flag.” I know how his mind works. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/592 "2017-10-03T09:37:32Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I wonder how much overlap there is between the people who claim that kneeling is disrespectful and people who like to wave around Confederate flag. I bet it’s a lot. There certainly seems to be a fair amount of overlap between “people who spent a year talking about how terrible America is _including doing so on Russian television_ and people who called the kneeling NFL players ‘sons of bitches’”. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/593 "2017-10-03T12:18:51Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I wonder how much overlap there is between the people who claim that kneeling is disrespectful and people who like to wave around Confederate flag. I bet it’s a lot. > > I also wonder how much overlap there is between those who claim that kneeling is being disrespectful and those who claim that waving around a Confederate flag is just a celebration of history. I bet that’s also a lot. > > BTW, Starving Artist and Okrahoma, if you condem men for kneeling but don’t condem men for waving around the Confederate flag (which I haven’t noticed either of you doing), then you’re a hypocritical son of a bitch. > > Maybe for Okrahoma I should substitute “Confederate flag” with “Nazi flag.” I know how his mind works. The Venn diagram for both sets of sets is likely a fully formed, integrated circle. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/594 "2017-10-03T16:55:38Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > his mind works. Cite? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/595 "2017-10-03T19:23:15Z")
[Crocodile Dundee voice]Silently kneeling during the Anthem ain’t disrespectful, **this** is disrespectful.[/CDV] > [@Beachcomber](#): > > Will the gentleman who threw an onion at the Union Jack, and repeatedly and noisily tore cloth during the singing of ‘Land of Hope and Glory’, at the Orphans’ Outing on Thursday, write to Colonel Sir George Jarvis Delamain Spooner, late of Poona, telling him what right he has to the Old Carthusian braces which burst when he was arrested? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/596 "2017-10-03T19:47:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So, Kaepernick is “attempting to convey a certain respect” but at the same time “going out of [his] way to avoid showing respect”. Classic **Starving Artist** wafflegab. To the undiscerning maybe. What you have is disrespect and lessened disrespect (i.e., the attempted conveyance of ‘a certain respect’, characterized by kneeling rather than sitting). Both are still disrespect, differentiated only by degree. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/597 "2017-10-03T19:59:04Z")
And these so-called “Sons of Liberty”? Why can’t they politely disagree with colonial tax policy without disrespecting our Good King, George? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/598 "2017-10-03T21:42:41Z")
You know what? After a good night’s sleep I’ve decided that I’m willing to accept any kind of moronic mouthfarts anybody wants to emit about how disrespectful it is to make an unsolicited respectful gesture to the anthem. Yes! You’re right! It’s disrespectful! He practically set fire to it, pissed on it, and set fire to it again, despite it being music! There is no more disrespectful action _possible_ than what he did! So we agree on that. And anyone who redirects attention away from the subject of the protest in order to whine like a cuckolded baby snowflake about this anthem disrespecting thing is a giant shitpile and, almost certainly, a racist. Can we agree about that too? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/599 "2017-10-03T21:50:44Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I wonder how much overlap there is between the people who claim that kneeling is disrespectful and people who like to wave around Confederate flag. I bet it’s a lot. > > I also wonder how much overlap there is between those who claim that kneeling is being disrespectful and those who claim that waving around a Confederate flag is just a celebration of history. I bet that’s also a lot. > > BTW, Starving Artist and Okrahoma, if you condem men for kneeling but don’t condem men for waving around the Confederate flag (which I haven’t noticed either of you doing), then you’re a hypocritical son of a bitch. > > Maybe for Okrahoma I should substitute “Confederate flag” with “Nazi flag.” I know how his mind works. Don’t talk like that, you’ll get scolded for not being nice enough to the no good hypocritical sons of bitches 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/600 "2017-10-03T21:51:45Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > There certainly seems to be a fair amount of overlap between “people who spent a year talking about how terrible America is _including doing so on Russian television_ and people who called the kneeling NFL players ‘sons of bitches’”. The irony! It burns! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=31)