# Trump Magically Turns NFL Games Into Anti-Trump Rallies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216 "2017-09-24T20:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/601 "2017-10-04T00:54:02Z")
Well, this certainly isn’t the way to change the views of a no-good hypocritical son of a bitch. With the right approach, you could change the set of values he is lying about having. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/602 "2017-10-04T01:54:37Z")
> **[N.J. mega car dealer pulls TV ads over NFL protests](https://www.nj.com/hunterdon/2017/10/flemington_business_owner_pulls_tv_ads_over_nfl_pr.html)** > > The NFL parses the nationwide issues of social justice and freedom of speech, showing a firm direction by them is not forthcoming, Steve Kalafer said. The National Football League and its owners have shown their fans and marketing partners that they do not have a comprehensive policy to ensure that players stand and show respect for America and our flag during the playing of the national anthem," Steve Kalafer said in a statement. “We have cancelled all of our NFL advertising on the Optimum and Infinity (cable) networks.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/603 "2017-10-04T01:58:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > To the undiscerning maybe. So now we are being lectured on the fine points of discernment by the blind, deaf, and dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/604 "2017-10-04T02:04:00Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If you’re going out of your way to avoid showing respect to something you are by definition disrespecting it. End of story. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! No; that’s not how it works. ETA: No; wait. Let’s see about this: do you feel that police who don’t actively try and not kill black people are actively trying to kill black people, too? Or is it just with this whole “respect for the flag” issue that it works the way you said? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/605 "2017-10-04T02:14:17Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > [N.J. mega car dealer pulls TV ads over NFL protests - nj.com](http://www.nj.com/hunterdon/index.ssf/2017/10/flemington_business_owner_pulls_tv_ads_over_nfl_pr.html) > > The National Football League and its owners have shown their fans and marketing partners that they do not have a comprehensive policy to ensure that players stand and show respect for America and our flag during the playing of the national anthem," Steve Kalafer said in a statement. “We have cancelled all of our NFL advertising on the Optimum and Infinity (cable) networks.” :eek: Great googly moogly! One New Jersey car dealer has pulled his local ads that air during NFL games! OMFG! The end is near! THE END IS NEAR!!! I bet the stations have no trouble finding others willing to pay for that ad slot. In fact, I bet his protest is less noticed and impactful than Colin Kapaernick’s protest. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/606 "2017-10-04T02:21:46Z")
I missed the edit window, but I found this at the end of that link from **Okrahoma** : > [@](#): > > However, Kalafer stressed his problem is not with protests, but the way the NFL and team owners have not taken a leadership role in responding to the player’s actions. > > **He feels strongly that NFL owners should have given their players direction on how to best exercise freedom of speech.** As a result of lack of intervention by the owners, Kalafer said, the protests have spiraled out of control. > > “Owners buried their heads in the sand when (Colin) Kaepernick was kneeling. That was the time and place for direction and leadership, and that’s why this controversy is taking place,” he said. The bolded part is the best! I know he said it without a trace of irony or self-awareness, too. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/607 "2017-10-04T15:36:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I missed the edit window, but I found this at the end of that link from **Okrahoma** :The bolded part is the best! I know he said it without a trace of irony or self-awareness, too. It just shows how fucking STUPID he is. " … NFL owners should have given their players direction on how to best exercise freedom of speech … " Fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/608 "2017-10-04T16:21:14Z")
What’s stupid about it? I don’t know of many other places where employees are allowed to exercise unfettered ‘freedom of speech’ in their workplace, and especially not in ways that piss off a large part of their customer base. (Or even away from the workplace for that matter. Note that dumb bitch who got fired from CBS recently for saying on Facebook that country music fans, being Republicans, don’t deserve sympathy after being hurt or killed in the Las Vegas shooting). People like you, her, and some of the other morons in this thread who think everyone you disagree with is some combination of stupid and evil are the very reason we have Trump in the White House and Republicans in control of virtually the entire country’s government. If you really want to call someone stupid, I’d suggest you do it in front of a mirror. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/609 "2017-10-04T23:29:32Z")
Just so we’re all clear on the gist of this bullshit… Here are some of Drumpf’s “fine people”, respecting the country and OUR flag… not like those nasty football and baseball guys who hate Murrica: [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Charlottesville_%22Unite_the_Right%22_Rally_%2835780274914%29.jpg/220px-Charlottesville_%22Unite_the_Right%22_Rally_%2835780274914%29.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Charlottesville_%22Unite_the_Right%22_Rally_%2835780274914%29.jpg/220px-Charlottesville_%22Unite_the_Right%22_Rally_%2835780274914%29.jpg) [https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/ipymBSE\_HY3RMRYxcxoNFmNW7Tk=/950x534/filters:quality(90)/https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F562234%2Fb71c9691-3b28-4c77-84ea-5872e474aee1.jpg](https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/ipymBSE_HY3RMRYxcxoNFmNW7Tk=/950x534/filters:quality(90)/https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F562234%2Fb71c9691-3b28-4c77-84ea-5872e474aee1.jpg) [http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjQxLb\_jtjWAhXKzVQKHU8IBKoQjxwIAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phillymag.com%2Fnews%2F2017%2F08%2F16%2Fcharlottesville-philly-rally%2F&psig=AOvVaw2snE6p414\_EHPCICg-4S7s&ust=1507245965623870](http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjQxLb_jtjWAhXKzVQKHU8IBKoQjxwIAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phillymag.com%2Fnews%2F2017%2F08%2F16%2Fcharlottesville-philly-rally%2F&psig=AOvVaw2snE6p414_EHPCICg-4S7s&ust=1507245965623870) [http://www.khou.com/img/resize/content.khou.com/photo/2017/08/12/636381270777565257-XXX-WhiteNationalistTorchRalley-MM-006\_1502550530202\_10242651\_ver1.0.JPG?preset=534-401](http://www.khou.com/img/resize/content.khou.com/photo/2017/08/12/636381270777565257-XXX-WhiteNationalistTorchRalley-MM-006_1502550530202_10242651_ver1.0.JPG?preset=534-401) Now assholes, explain why this bullshit is good American free speech and should be allowed … but silently taking a knee is traitorous disrespect to the country and flag and should be limited or punished ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/610 "2017-10-04T23:36:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What’s stupid about it? It’s a blatant contradiction in terms. Saying “NFL owners should have given their players direction on how to behave in this situation” or “NFL owners should have made it clear to their players that they have to stand for the anthem”, etc., would be one thing. I may not agree that that’s what NFL owners should have done, but I agree that it wouldn’t be unconstitutional of them to do it. But trying to euphemistically describe that kind of interference with freedom of speech as “how to best exercise freedom of speech” is nothing but obvious Orwellian doublespeak. If you are telling somebody over whom you have authority what they can or can’t do, you are not “directing” them “how to best exercise their freedom”: you are **restricting** their freedom. It’s both stupid and dishonest to try to dress up that restriction as merely a helpful “direction” for how they should “best” do what you’re actively preventing them from doing. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/611 "2017-10-04T23:41:06Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > explain why this bullshit is good American free speech and should be allowed … > but silently taking a knee is traitorous disrespect to the country and flag and should be limited or punished You display an utter misapprehension of the position. I will type this slowly so maybe you will understand (really a vain hope, since you don’t really want to understand, but let’s try) 1. Displaying Nazi flags is free speech and has to be allowed, due to the 1st Amendment, in public places, by the government. 2. Disrespecting the flag/anthem in any manner is free speech and has to be allowed, due to the 1st Amendment, in public places, by the government. 3. Reprehensible speech still can be free speech. 4. Free speech, especially reprehensible free speech, can be condemned. Condemning it is not a violation of the right to free speech. In fact, it’s an expression of that right. 5. A football stadium is not a public place. 6. And even if it was, the 1st Amendment doesn’t protect employees’ freedom of speech (whether in public or in private) from being limited or punished by employers. Hope this made it clearer for you. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/612 "2017-10-04T23:47:33Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > You display an utter misapprehension of the position. I will type this slowly so maybe you will understand (really a vain hope, since you don’t really want to understand, but let’s try) > > 1. Displaying Nazi flags is free speech and has to be allowed, due to 1st amendment, in public places, by the government. > > 2. Disrespecting the flag/anthem in any manner is free speech and has to be allowed, due to 1st amendment, in public places, by the government. > > 3. Reprehensible speech still can be free speech. > > 4. Free speech, especially reprehensible free speech, can be condemned. Condemning it is not a violation of the right to free speech. In fact, it’s an expression of that right. > > 5. A football stadium is not a public place. > > 6. And even if it was, the first amendment doesn’t protect employees’ freedom of speech (whether in public or in private) from being limited or punished by employers. > > Hope this made it clearer for you. Let’s make this clearer to you. The President is the ultimate representation of the US government. He called for the principle of free speech to be curtailed. There is _always_ a problem when the government calls for an end to free speech. He was intruding into a private matter. ETA: You’re a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/613 "2017-10-04T23:49:45Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Let’s make this clearer to you. The President is the ultimate representation of the US government. > He called for the principle of free speech to be curtailed. No, he called for employers to discipline the employees. The call that the employers have complete right to ignore. Has nothing to do with the US government. Now, if he called for some law to be passed against the kneeling, you’d have a point. But he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/614 "2017-10-04T23:59:55Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No, he called for employers to discipline the employees. The call that the employers have complete right to ignore. Has nothing to do with the US government. > > Now, if he called for some law to be passed against the kneeling, you’d have a point. But he didn’t. No, [he wanted the players fired](http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/politics/donald-trump-alabama-nfl/index.html)for the simple act of protesting. Nothing mentioned of loss of revenue, disparaging the NFL, harming public opinion of the NFL. Just the act of protesting. > [@](#): > > Trump said NFL owners should respond to the players by saying, “Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, he’s fired. He’s fired!” > > “For a week, (that owner would) be the most popular person in this country. Because that’s a total disrespect of our heritage. That’s a total disrespect for everything we stand for,” Trump said. Minor point: As usual, Trump has no respect for such things as contracts, collective bargaining agreements or the NFL’s own conduct requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/615 "2017-10-05T00:04:34Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No, [he wanted the players fired](http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/politics/donald-trump-alabama-nfl/index.html)for the simple act of protesting. As in “he called for employers to discipline the employees”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/616 "2017-10-05T00:12:29Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > As in “he called for employers to discipline the employees”. And the reason he called for discipline was for the simple act of protesting. Not really any of his business, is it? Especially as President. He also has no business taking sides in a ( potential) labor/management dispute. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/617 "2017-10-05T00:17:05Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And the reason he called for discipline was for the simple act of protesting. > Not really any of his business, is it? Especially as President. > He also has no business taking sides in a ( potential) labor/management dispute. That’s your opinion. But it still has nothing to do whatsoever with the 1st Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/618 "2017-10-05T00:19:32Z")
> [@](#): > > As a result of lack of intervention by the owners, Kalafer said, the protests have spiraled out of control. Yeah, there are people raping horses in the streets… mass hysteria! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/619 "2017-10-05T00:28:22Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That’s your opinion. But it still has nothing to do whatsoever with the 1st Amendment. Trump does not run the NFL. He’s calling for a punishment that he has no place calling for _as President._ This is a matter between the players and owners. The President has no business calling for punishment of an act of free speech alone. He represents (and swore to defend (HA!)) the Constitution. The President should never be calling for the punishment of a legal act. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216/620 "2017-10-05T05:04:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s a blatant contradiction in terms. Saying “NFL owners should have given their players direction on how to behave in this situation” or “NFL owners should have made it clear to their players that they have to stand for the anthem”, etc., would be one thing. I may not agree that that’s what NFL owners should have done, but I agree that it wouldn’t be unconstitutional of them to do it. > > But trying to euphemistically describe that kind of interference with freedom of speech as “how to best exercise freedom of speech” is nothing but obvious Orwellian doublespeak. If you are telling somebody over whom you have authority what they can or can’t do, you are not “directing” them “how to best exercise their freedom”: you are **restricting** their freedom. It’s both stupid and dishonest to try to dress up that restriction as merely a helpful “direction” for how they should “best” do what you’re actively preventing them from doing. This really shouldn’t be such a difficult concept for you to grasp. There isn’t an employer anywhere in the world who allows his or her employees to say and do anything they want while on the job. And chief among the restrictions employers place upon employees is not to say or do things that alienate customers. Further, as the board’s lefties are so quick to point out when conservatives criticize attempts to shut down right-wing speakers, freedom of speech pertains only to government attempts to shut down speech and not to private individuals. The NFL owners would be perfectly within their rights to tell their players not to demonstrate in any way at all and to fire them if they do. This doesn’t mean it would be the best or smartest or most humanitarian thing to do, but it doesn’t violate anyone’s rights. So given all that, what the owners are attempting to do is to say 'We respect the concept of freedom of speech and we want to do what’s right by you and allow you to express yourself, but there needs to be limits." And there is not only nothing wrong with that but it’s actually laudable given that they don’t have to allow such protests at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-magically-turns-nfl-games-into-anti-trump-rallies/797216.md?page=32)