# Trump may be near irreversible collapse. Is multi-candidate free for all near? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 26, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408 "2016-06-26T15:06:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/41 "2016-06-27T02:08:23Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As noted before Trump is frustrated that the Orlando attack did not really favor him. > > As for Brexit, It was also pointed that Trump looked like a fool in Scotland and it may get worse if the UK begins to fragment as a result of the vote. > > [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClvPIHlXEAAUW-S.jpg:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClvPIHlXEAAUW-S.jpg:large) > > I mean, Trump then is looking more like President Buchanan than Pat Buchanan. This. Trump feasted off of crisis in the republican debates, but he has attempted to do the same and he’s tried to hit Hillary over the head with it, and it’s not working. There’s a big difference between jumping into a mosh pit full of punk head and jumping into a crowd at the state fair. The first crowd will catch you; the latter will part like the Red Sea, let your bones hit the cement, and wonder just what the fuck you’re thinking by jumping off the stage into a crowd or well-adjusted people. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/42 "2016-06-27T02:15:18Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Trump has a solid core of true believers. Plus, I have a gut feeling that he has a lot of additional supporters who won’t admit it out loud to the pollsters (or even to family members)— but in the privacy of the voting booth will vote for him. > If the polls say 39 vs 51 %, I say, add 3 or 4 % for the “secret admirers”. > \*\* That changes the results to 43 vs 47\*\*—only a 4% difference. I agree that there might be a significant numbers of voters who aren’t volunteering their support of Trump to pollsters. But I don’t agree with your premise that those 3 to 4 percent (or whatever) are instead telling pollsters they’ll vote for Hillary. The numbers may grow for Trump, but they sure won’t decline for Hillary by the same amount. Trump might go from 39 to 43, maybe, but Hillary wouldn’t fall from 51 to 47 … 49, maybe. A few other very interesting items from the ABC/WaPo poll - Hillary leads Trump by 62 points among non-whites. Needless to say, that’s a **lot** , and (to make the Brexit comparison) the US voting pool is far more diverse than that in Great Britain. The poll also shows Trump is only tied with Hillary among men. Trump is going to have to win men by some huge numbers if he has any hope of moving into the White House in January. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/43 "2016-06-27T02:26:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > There’s a big difference between jumping into a mosh pit full of punk head and jumping into a crowd at the state fair. The first crowd will catch you; the latter will part like the Red Sea, let your bones hit the cement, and wonder just what the fuck you’re thinking by jumping off the stage into a crowd or well-adjusted people. This, my friend, is a thing of beauty. I salute you. ---
**Author:** ![laszlozoltan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laszlozoltan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laszlozoltan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/44 "2016-06-27T03:01:07Z")
it’s nice to see trump not gaining traction with the majority of americans; but at the same time, 5 months to go is more than enough time to see someone drop the ball and completely lose the initiative. respectfully speaking, look what happened in canada last year- the leading major federal party going in came dead last. the main reason for that is the leading party (ndp) decided to play it safe, and the 3rd party (liberals) went with inspirational themes- a question was asked of the leaders (re head coverings for muslim women in public ceremony) and one cautious safe answer did the ndp in. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/45 "2016-06-27T03:09:02Z")
I’ll wait to see the irreversible collapse. I’m cheering for it, but this has been a campaign where nothing happens as forecast. > [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Did anyone else first read that as “Irreversible Prolapse”? > > No…? I must say it is a disgusting yet highly amusing notion to contemplate. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/46 "2016-06-27T03:40:14Z")
Here is another new poll: Clinton is only ahead by 5%: > **[NBC/WSJ Poll: Clinton Leads Trump By 5 Points](https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/nbc-wsj-poll-clinton-leads-trump-5-points-n598716)** > > Forty-six percent of registered voters back Clinton, versus 41 percent who support Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/47 "2016-06-27T03:43:55Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Here is another new poll: Clinton is only ahead by 5%: > [NBC/WSJ Poll: Clinton Leads Trump By 5 Points](http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/nbc-wsj-poll-clinton-leads-trump-5-points-n598716) To steal a line from Nate Silver: the bad news for Trump is that its good news for Trump when he’s five points down. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/48 "2016-06-27T04:02:24Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > To steal a line from Nate Silver: the bad news for Trump is that its good news for Trump when he’s five points down. And one more thing to note, by this time in the Romney vs Obama race Obama was ahead by just 2 points, of course that is not very meaningful this early. But the important thing IMHO is to see how the general trend remained in the current polarized electorate. Obama kept that slight advantage in the aggregate of polls for ages. And Clinton is doing the same, as in being ahead of trump, the difference is that Clinton is ahead of Trump by higher margins than Obama. Still, one should not be complacent, many should help to ensure that Trump does lose the election. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/49 "2016-06-27T04:15:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you actually look at the poll results, Trump has “collapsed” to where he was in March. Trump is here to stay until and unless he decides to jump ship. I think there’s only one thing that will stop Trump, and that’s his death. No, I don’t want THAT to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/50 "2016-06-27T04:31:54Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Here is another new poll: Clinton is only ahead by 5%: > [NBC/WSJ Poll: Clinton Leads Trump By 5 Points](http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/nbc-wsj-poll-clinton-leads-trump-5-points-n598716) That’s the same NBC/WSJ poll referenced upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/51 "2016-06-27T05:04:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Nothing about the Republican platform is racist/sexist. Right. This is from the GOP party platform: 1-_The Republican Party includes Americans from every faith and tradition, and our policies and positions respect the right of every American to follow his or her beliefs and underscore our reverence for the religious freedom envisioned by the Founding Fathers of our nation and of our party. As a matter of principle, we oppose the creation of any new race-based governments within the United States._ I wonder what this is referring to. They say race-based government, but I assume they mean Sharia law? \*2-Defending Marriage Against An Activist Judiciary A serious threat to our country’s constitutional order, perhaps even more dangerous than presidential malfeasance, is an activist judiciary, in which some judges usurp the powers reserved to other branches of government. A blatant example has been the court-ordered redefinition of marriage in several States. This is more than a matter of warring legal concepts and ideals. It is an assault on the foundations of our society, challenging the institution which, for thousands of years in virtually every civilization, has been entrusted with the rearing of children and the transmission of cultural values. A Sacred Contract: Defense of Marriage That is why Congressional Republicans took the lead in enacting the Defense of Marriage Act, affirming the right of States and the federal government not to recognize same-sex relationships licensed in other jurisdictions. The current Administration’s open defiance of this constitutional principle – in its handling of immigration cases, in federal personnel benefits, in allowing a same-sex marriage at a military base, and in refusing to defend DOMA in the courts – makes a mockery of the President’s inaugural oath. We commend the United States House of Representatives and State Attorneys General who have defended these laws when they have been attacked in the courts. We reaffirm our support for a Constitutional amendment defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman. We applaud the citizens of the majority of States which have enshrined in their constitutions the traditional concept of marriage, and we support the campaigns underway in several other States to do so.\* Homophobia is sexist. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/52 "2016-06-27T05:34:05Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Homophobia is sexist. I had meant the underlying tenets, like small government, pro-business, pro-military, anti-tax. As said, none of these is inherently racist/sexist. Under the core values, there is room for an atheist, lesbian, Native American women to view herself as Republican, even if she is disgusted by most of the base and decries its having been co-opted by fundies. As politicians have been forced to make everything public and Liberals keep telling everyone that we’re living in a Democracy, rather than a Republic, the base has progressively become more convinced that their representatives should vote the way that they’re mandated to, and will boot them out if they do not. Politicians have to not just pander to the base but also vote with the base (and basest) of their constituents. So I’m not surprised that the Republican party lists sexist and racist things on their site. But, that does not make those things the core values of the Republican party. Before Nixon, the Republican party was the one leading the way on racial equality and the Democrats were supporting the racists. That wasn’t a matter of the core values changing. It was a matter of the base changing. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/53 "2016-06-27T11:16:11Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Fear of globalization and xenophobia are the only two things Trump is running on, of course the Brexit vote favors him. And the Orlando attack favors him because of the muslim ban. As far as the Muslim ban, if you’re enough of a bigot that the ban made sense to you, then you were already in Trump’s column. Perhaps a terror attack might motivate Trump’s voters, but they aren’t going to win any converts because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/54 "2016-06-27T12:49:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I had meant the underlying tenets, like small government, pro-business, pro-military, anti-tax. As said, none of these is inherently racist/sexist. Under the core values, there is room for an atheist, lesbian, Native American women to view herself as Republican, even if she is disgusted by most of the base and decries its having been co-opted by fundies. That’s only true if you define “Republican Core Values” in such a way that it ignores all the harmful things that Republicans do once they finally get into office - starting pointless wars, shifting the tax burden to the poor and middle class, enacting laws to protect discrimination against gay people, denying healthcare to women and children, weakening social security and medicare, prioritizing the profits of the insurance companies over public health, slashing education funding, fighting anti-polluting regulations, fighting the ERA, fighting Family Leave, fighting affirmative action. The “fundies” didn’t hijack your party. The “fundies” are your party. The Republicans can say what they want but the rest of us are free to draw our own conclusions about just what exactly the Republicans “value”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/55 "2016-06-27T12:52:19Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Before Nixon, the Republican party was the one leading the way on racial equality and the Democrats were supporting the racists. That wasn’t a matter of the core values changing. It was a matter of the base changing. After Nixon this reversed itself – the Republican party changed to try and get these racist voters, while the Democrats changed to try and get black voters. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/56 "2016-06-27T13:34:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Before Nixon, the Republican party was the one leading the way on racial equality and the Democrats were supporting the racists. That wasn’t a matter of the core values changing. It was a matter of the base changing. Not entirely. HST integrated the armed forces. It was LBJ who spearheaded the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. Sure, he had the help of many liberal Republicans, but if LBJ hadn’t been pushing it, it wouldn’t have happened. When the South was solidly Democratic, sure the Democrats had more racists. But all of the old Dixiecrats became Republican, thanks to Nixon’s Southern Strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/57 "2016-06-27T13:38:09Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I think there’s only one thing that will stop Trump, and that’s his death. > > No, I don’t want THAT to happen. May he live to a hundred and twenty, and may his memory never fade so he will remember to the end what a _loser_ he made of himself this year. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/58 "2016-06-27T16:15:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Problem is that he fights so dirty that even Republicans are getting soiled and hit by Trump also. And as I noted in another thread there is still one factor against Trump that was not present in past presidential contests; [this time the right wing echo cave has had many cave ins](http://www.theindychannel.com/news/politics/george-will-dumps-republican-party-over-trump), the monolith seen defending the Republican candidate 24/7 is not 100% in favor of the current Republican candidate. > > Here is another factor against Trump too: in the past one saw dozens of Republican congress critters from the GOP overwhelmingly and quickly **defending** their candidate against Democratic attacks in TV and other media, currently there is mostly crickets. > > [Trump Time Capsule - The Atlantic](http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/all/2016/05/the-daily-trump/484064/#note-485738) I have an answer for the last thing you quoted. > [@](#): > > You could say it’s “clever” for the Republican establishment to go through the motions of supporting Trump, while making it 100% clear that they know he’s toxically unqualified. I don’t really understand why they think that’s wiser than saying: No, here I draw the line. Maybe later on they’ll explain. For now this note is just to record the state of affairs and of public knowledge, six-plus weeks before the convention. Because repudiating Trump is repudiating the very intelligence of a large percentage of their base voters. They are wedded to the concept of “The people (that is, the Republican people, the only REAL Americans) have spoken.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/59 "2016-06-27T17:05:01Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I have an answer for the last thing you quoted. > > Because repudiating Trump is repudiating the very intelligence of a large percentage of their base voters. They are wedded to the concept of “The people (that is, the Republican people, the only REAL Americans) have spoken.” Objection Your Honor, that line about the “very intelligence” assumes facts not in evidence. 🙂 Yeah, I’m aware of what many on the base are accepting the “Potemkin village” show of unity. But what I see is that there is a very significant percentage of Republicans that are smart enough to realize that even a passive support given to Trump will soil the whole Republican party. And now we see many Republicans that will be “busy” elsewhere and not at the convention. It shows that besides the Republicans that are brave enough to say “no way” to Trump that there are a lot who are voting with their feet while telling the base that they endorse Trump. IMHO not repudiating Trump is only leading to [the normalization of bigoted ideas](http://www.newshounds.us/sheriff_joe_arpaio_praises_donald_trump_s_bravery_for_making_bigoted_attacks_on_hispanic_judge_060816), [to make more acceptable to disregard the rule of law](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/04/us/politics/donald-trump-constitution-power.html?_r=0) and [the repudiation of science as a whole. Something that will have severe consequences not only for the USA but for the world.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-clowns-own-audience_us_55fc2b64e4b00310edf6b69a) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408/60 "2016-06-27T17:17:12Z")
Basically, I agree, and the thread predicting the fragmentation of the party after November is mine. But the rejection of science, and just plain facts, can’t be blamed on Donald. That stuff goes at least as far back as Reagan, though it’s been picking up steam in the past 15 years or so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-may-be-near-irreversible-collapse-is-multi-candidate-free-for-all-near/758408.md?page=4)