# Trump Might Have Called for the Termination of the Constitution **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 3, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990 "2022-12-03T23:31:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/201 "2022-12-12T18:50:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I salute the person who set this up, making Trump look like a little boy at the kid’s table. It’s obviously fake. I mean there’s not one smidge of ~~gold~~ gilt in the image. And phooey on Playskool. I like the Mar a Lego set much better. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/B-bEYzonlho/maxresdefault.jpg "Trumps Mar A Lego Xmas game") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-bEYzonlho) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/202 "2022-12-12T19:15:15Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > It’s obviously fake. I mean there’s not one smidge of ~~gold~~ gilt in the image. But there’s a gold fringe on the American flag. Doesn’t that make it legit? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/203 "2022-12-12T20:04:51Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It looks to me as if he’s calling for selective enforcement of the Constitution, presumably specifically in areas that would benefit him. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Can you come up with anything else it could possibly mean? > [@Gorsnak](#): > > Trump really is calling for the termination of the Constitution > [@Skypist](#): > > As far as the specific subject of this thread, calling for changing or removing “some of” the rules in the Constitution is pretty much calling for the abolishment of the Constitution, in my mind. Installing someone as president who did not win by the rules of the Constitution would BE the abolishment of the Constitution, in my mind. Even calling for a new election, which is not allowed for in the Constitution, would be the abolishment of it. > @realDonaldTrump wrote on Dec 03, 2022, 7:44 AM: > > So, with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party, do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great “Founders” did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections! My personal read is that he’s accusing _Democrats and Big Tech Companies_ of massive fraud of a type and magnitude that violates all rules/regulations/articles, even those found in the Constitution. Therefore he asks whether to throw out the fraudulent result and declare himself the rightful President, or whether to hold a new election. Typical Trump. I didn’t even raise an eyebrow, and I’m very much a law and order kind of guy with no love for the man. **RickJay** came closest to my read when describing the “Trumpist reaction” in [post #129](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/129), point 1. For the sake of comprehension, take it as a premise that the 2020 election was a fraud perpetrated by Democrats and Big Tech Companies. Trump is saying that the fraud itself puts an end to rules, regulations, and even articles of the Constitution. Therefore the rule of law requires you to reject the 2020 election, and either declare Trump the rightful and legal winner or hold new elections. (_If_ I believed the 2020 election was fraudulent I would give more thought as to what remedy is appropriate, but that’s a high bar to meet.) It is not in any way implied that rejecting Biden’s victory in 2020 is illegal or unconstitutional; in fact, the underlying premise is that Biden’s victory was fraudulent and therefore itself illegal and unconstitutional. Don’t ask me to justify this argument from a legal standpoint. The premise crumbles under scrutiny, like all other forms of Trump-logic. Election deniers went to court many times and lost. Nevertheless commentators (even here) who construe Trump’s comments as calling for martial law or suspension of the Constitution haven’t swallowed the Big Lie. That is not his _message_. He is _not_ justifying, to his supporters, the suspension of law. He is saying the Constitution is on his side, hence the appeal to the “Founders”. Reports that Trump wants to terminate the Constitution are likely to be characterized by himself or his supporters as lies, and have in fact been so characterized. > **Mr. Trump clarifies his "termination" post (Click to show/hide)** > > > @realDonaldTrump wrote on Dec 05, 2022, 12:43 PM: > > > > The Fake News is actually trying to convince the American People that I said I wanted to “terminate” the Constitution. This is simply more DISINFORMATION & LIES, just like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, and all of their other HOAXES & SCAMS. What I said was that when there is “MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION,” as has been irrefutably proven in the 2020 Presidential Election, steps must be immediately taken to RIGHT THE WRONG. Only FOOLS would disagree with that and accept STOLEN ELECTIONS. MAGA! > > > @realDonaldTrump wrote on Dec 05, 2022, 1:06 PM: > > > > SIMPLY PUT, IF AN ELECTION IS IRREFUTABLY FRAUDULENT, IT SHOULD GO TO THE RIGHTFUL WINNER OR, AT A MINIMUM, BE REDONE. WHERE OPEN AND BLATANT FRAUD IS INVOLVED, THERE SHOULD BE NO TIME LIMIT FOR CHANGE! * * * > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > A responsible journalist would have read the tweet (or whatever you call it), contacted Trump or his spokesperson, and said “Hey, you published this statement. It appears to mean X. Did you mean X? If not, what did you mean?” and then kept pressing until she got an answer. Yeah, right. Where were you when the man was actually serving as President? Remember these “clarifications” on Trump’s social media posts? “I think the President and a small group of people know exactly what he meant.” ~Press Secretary Sean Spicer, 2017 “[T]he tweet speaks for itself, I’m moving on.” ~Press Secretary Sean Spicer, 2017 “I think you’re focusing on the wrong thing” ~Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, 2017 etc. I doubt Trump’s press manager is giving comments right now, or that journalists would be interested in asking. Instead they ask other prominent Republicans and run with their “reactions”. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Yes, but if the story cannot be verified, _they shouldn’t go to press with it._ […] The Fourth Estate is not here to amplify gossip, but to report the news. Shouldn’t, but did anyways. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Otherwise, the story is “Famous Attention Hog Grunts for Attention.” […] They quote the tweet, they quote the White House spokesman, and then they give a bit of background. There’s no assessment, verification, analysis. There’s no STORY here. Bingo! We have a winner! The reality is, sensational stories bring all the readers. Sensationalism is nothing new in journalism. I was personally thrilled to hear that [the _New York Post_ buried Trump’s 2024 campaign anouncement](https://twitter.com/stableford/status/1592921020088086528) on page 26, with the headline “Florida Man Makes Announcement.” ~Max ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/204 "2022-12-12T22:11:10Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > My personal read is that he’s accusing _Democrats and Big Tech Companies_ of massive fraud of a type and magnitude that violates all rules/regulations/articles, even those found in the Constitution. Not only is that not my reading, I don’t think it’s a reasonable interpretation either. He said “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules…” which means that the fraud done by the Democrats allows the other side to throw out the rules (even those in the Constitution). That’s just the plain reading of his words. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/205 "2022-12-12T22:17:16Z")
(Max\_S quoting Trump:) > [@Max\_S](#): > > …with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party… Oh, what was this revelation? Did Trump elaborate on the revelation? Or was he talking made up fantasy bullshit fucking lies again? Again? “Made up Fantasy Bullshit Fucking lies…” Oh, a “Trump”? There’s a single syllable word for that. Fits on a bumper sticker and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/206 "2022-12-12T22:18:25Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > That’s just the plain reading of his words. Yep. The alternative involves the usual twisting and complex verbal gymnastics that typically follow a Trumpism when someone is trying to come up with “what he _really_ meant was…” ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/207 "2022-12-12T22:28:04Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Did Trump elaborate on the revelation? Wasn’t it that Facebook and Twitter blocked posts showing Hunter Biden nude? I’m pretty sure the Constitution says they have to show those. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/208 "2022-12-12T22:29:18Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Oh, what was this revelation? Did Trump elaborate on the revelation? Or was he talking made up fantasy bullshit fucking lies again? It was a [Fox News story](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi-weekly-big-tech-ahead-2020-election-agent-testifies) about the FBI meeting with social media companies to suppress disinformation, _cough cough_ the Hunter Biden story _cough cough_. Also the Elon Musk twitter files thing. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/209 "2022-12-12T22:33:28Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Not only is that not my reading, I don’t think it’s a reasonable interpretation either. He said “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules…” which means that the fraud done by the Democrats allows the other side to throw out the rules (even those in the Constitution). That’s just the plain reading of his words. Allows who? The original source doesn’t specify explicitly, it is ambiguous. You say it allows the other side (Trump et al) to terminate all rules. It makes more sense to me for Trump to accuse Democrats and Big Tech of ignoring the rules and Constitution. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/210 "2022-12-12T22:41:08Z")
What part of the constitution? Cough. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/211 "2022-12-12T22:44:10Z")
Heck if I know. If I keep digging into this Truth Social my brain will surely rot. The way I see it the boys (and girls) at the FBI worked for Trump in 2020 so everything they did is on him personally. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/212 "2022-12-12T23:55:46Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I’m pretty sure the Constitution says they have to show those. I can’t tell if you’re joking or serious and utterly confused. The right of a free press attaches to the person who owns one. The constitutional restrictions apply to the federal government and only the federal government. Constitutionally speaking, a private company is free to allow or disallow whatever it wants for whatever reason it wants. There is statute law enacted by Congress that sets down some rights and corresponding responsibilities for private companies which make the situation more nuanced than a simple reading of the constitution might imply. But if you’re talking constitution, private censorship is totally OK. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/213 "2022-12-12T23:57:08Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I can’t tell if you’re joking or serious and utterly confused. Sorry, should have attached an /s. Utterly joking. Naturally, I understand and completely agree with the rest of your post. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/214 "2022-12-13T00:19:54Z")
Trying to find some interpretation of Trump’s gibberish that everyone will agree is the “most plausible” is impossible. That’s a feature for him, not a bug. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/215 "2022-12-13T05:23:07Z")
When he said “I want those guys killed, go and murder them now.”, it was obviously not to be taken literally. What he meant was, that they should be “killed” in the business sense, in that they should be out-competed. Clearly, the fact that the men were subsequently found murdered and cut into tiny pieces is a mere coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/216 "2022-12-13T05:28:41Z")
With many a historical precedent e.g. Henry II in 1170 regarding Thomas Becket “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/217 "2022-12-13T05:35:21Z")
plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/218 "2022-12-13T05:54:12Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > What part of the constitution? You know, Article 12. > **[Donald Trump: 'I'm for Article XII'](https://www.snopes.com/news/2016/07/24/donald-trump-article-xii/)** > > The GOP presidential nominee raised some eyebrows by pledging support for a non-existent section of the U.S. Constitution. Or maybe Article 2, the part that says “Trump can do whatever he wants”. [https://www.syracuse.com/politics/2019/07/trump-says-constitutions-article-ii-gives-him-right-to-do-whatever-i-want.html](https://www.syracuse.com/politics/2019/07/trump-says-constitutions-article-ii-gives-him-right-to-do-whatever-i-want.html) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/219 "2022-12-13T06:15:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You know, Article 12. Snopes: > Blake Farenthold (R-TX) dismissed the flub as little more than a small error. > > “He was just listing out numbers,” Farenthold said. “I think he was confusing Articles and Amendments. Remember, this guy doesn’t speak from a TelePrompter. He speaks from the heart.” From the _what?_ ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/220 "2022-12-13T08:19:14Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > “He was just listing out numbers,” Farenthold said. “I think he was confusing Articles and Amendments. Remember, this guy doesn’t speak from a TelePrompter. He speaks from the heart.” Or, and hear me out now, but maybe he has no %#\*\