# Trump Might Have Called for the Termination of the Constitution **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 3, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990 "2022-12-03T23:31:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/121 "2022-12-05T02:16:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I don’t think the Justice Dept. would arrest him for a non-crime like this. They are not that dumb. I’m not a lawyer, but maybe someone who is can answer this question. Can Trump’s statements after the insurrection be admissible as evidence for how to interpret statements made before, such as “Be there. Will be wild”? If the answer to the question is yes, then it was rational for Trump to make what I consider a dare. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/122 "2022-12-05T02:44:13Z")
They also don’t seem to be arresting him for the many other well-documented crimes he has committed, but I live in hope. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/123 "2022-12-05T05:29:58Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > This is just silly. Otherwise known as _reductio ad absurdum_. (That’s Latin for “you just got pwned.”) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/124 "2022-12-05T05:57:53Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I wonder if his call will be followed with a defense that the constitution was terminated, he is now installed as president and pardoned himself. Now we’re getting into Sovereign Citizen territory. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/125 "2022-12-05T06:10:01Z")
A _reductio_ requires that you demonstrate that your absurd conclusion logically follows from my premise. And you’ve conveniently left out the bit of my reply which argues that the silliness is precisely in thinking that your scenario does follow. It does not. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/126 "2022-12-05T14:54:59Z")
In case you thought this would cause him to lose support in the GOP, at least one person is saying: [![](https://i.imgur.com/ve484AV.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/ve484AV.jpg) [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-call-to-suspend-constitution-not-a-2024-deal-breaker-house-republican-says/ar-AA14TmhW](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-call-to-suspend-constitution-not-a-2024-deal-breaker-house-republican-says/ar-AA14TmhW) > “It’s early. I think there’s going to be a lot of people in the primary … [but] I will support whoever the Republican nominee is,” Joyce said while noting he didn’t think Trump would manage to win the 2024 Republican presidential nomination because there are “a lot of other good quality candidates out there.” > > “That’s a remarkable statement,” Stephanopoulos said. “You just said you’d support a candidate who’s come out for suspending the Constitution.” > > “Well, you know, he says a lot of things,” Joyce said, adding, “I can’t be really chasing every one of these crazy statements that come from any of these candidates.” > > “You can’t come out against someone who’s for suspending the Constitution?” Stephanopoulos pushed back once again. > > “He says a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean that it’s ever going to happen. So you got to [separate] fact from fantasy – and fantasy is that we’re going to suspend the Constitution and go backwards. We’re moving forward,” Joyce said. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/127 "2022-12-05T15:02:45Z")
Nothing new. Here’s what Billy Barr said the day after the insurrection: > [@](#): > > Former Attorney General William Barr accused President Donald Trump on Thursday of a “betrayal of his office” — the latest rebuke of the president by a former high-ranking administration official after pro-Trump rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol. > > “Orchestrating a mob to pressure Congress is inexcusable,” Barr said in a statement obtained by POLITICO. “The President’s conduct yesterday was a betrayal of his office and supporters.” > **[Barr: Trump committed ‘betrayal of his office’](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/07/barr-trump-committed-betrayal-of-his-office-455812)** > > “Orchestrating a mob to pressure Congress is inexcusable,” Barr said in a statement obtained by POLITICO. But he’s later said that if Trump gets the nomination, he’ll vote for trump, because: > [@](#): > > But “because I believe that the greatest threat to the country is the progressive agenda being pushed by the Democratic Party,” Barr added, “it’s inconceivable to me that I wouldn’t vote for the Republican nominee.” A “progressive agenda” is a worse threat to the country than a president inciting insurrection to overturn an election he lost. > **[Barr bashes Trump but says he’d still vote for him in 2024](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/07/barr-trump-2024-00014597)** > > Barr pledged to vote for Trump should he win the 2024 GOP nomination for president despite grave accusations and condemnations leveled against the former president. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/128 "2022-12-05T15:33:13Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > “Well, you know, he says a lot of things,” Joyce said, adding, “I can’t be really chasing every one of these crazy statements that come from any of these candidates.” To be fair, almost everything Trump says is either objectively idiotic or profoundly incoherent. One would think that would argue for a blanket condemnation of Trump as a candidate for any public office but the modern GOP has become very ‘woke’ about ‘abelism’, as least insofar as it comes to moral deficiency and mental incapacity as disability. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But he’s later said that if Trump gets the nomination, he’ll vote for trump, because: > > > [@](#): > > > > But “because I believe that the greatest threat to the country is the progressive agenda being pushed by the Democratic Party,” Barr added, “it’s inconceivable to me that I wouldn’t vote for the Republican nominee.” > > A “progressive agenda” is a worse threat to the country than a president inciting insurrection to overturn an election he lost. See _Deutsche Zentrumspartei_ (the German Centre Party) [circa 1933](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933#Preparations_and_negotiations). Barr and other ‘straight ticket regardless’ Republicans may not view themselves as proto-fascists but they are at a bar minimum enabling those who are. Of course, like “Grab them by the pussy,” _Quid Pro Quo_, Trump’s recommendation for people to inject themselves with bleach, and meeting with Putin _in camera_, it will be forgotten in a week by the media looking for a hot new story instead of “Here is plain evidence of autocratic intent by a would-be fascist…and even if you don’t think Trump is going to go anywhere with this, Ron DeSantis is right behind him taking notes.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/129 "2022-12-05T15:59:25Z")
The Trumpist reaction is pretty clear. They say two things: 1. Trump didn’t say it. He was saying the “steal” terminated the Constitution. (This is false.) 2. He’s right. There should be a revolution. There is no longer any regard amongst Trumpists for the Constitution or the rule of law. Sorry to say this but I still think the USA as a constitutional republic is very close to catastrophe. > [@kanicbird](#): > > I wonder if his call will be followed with a defense that the constitution was terminated, he is now installed as president and pardoned himself. Of course, if the Constitution is terminated, then there’s no such thing as a President. The President of the United States is a creation of the Constitution; the term means nothing in the Constitution’s absence. It’s like asking who the current head coach of a World Football League franchise is. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/130 "2022-12-05T16:15:53Z")
How is this being portrayed on conservative media? Ignored? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/131 "2022-12-05T16:27:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of course, if the Constitution is terminated, then there’s no such thing as a President. The President of the United States is a creation of the Constitution; the term means nothing in the Constitution’s absence. It’s like asking who the current head coach of a World Football League franchise is. That’s ridiculous. Lots of coutries have presidents: Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo is a president. Lots of countries dramatically change their system of government and still exhibit continuity. The leader of a post-Constitutional USA wouldn’t call himself King or Dictator or anything other than President, _especially_ if they got there illegitimately. And millions of Americans would (rightly) say “not my President,” but there he would be. In the unlikely event that Trump were to take and hold control of the USA through any means other than winning an election, I’m sure he’d dial the faux patriotism up to 11 and call himself President and find a hundred lackeys and label them a Senate. It’s not like he’s a stranger to lying. He’d do a new and “better” Constitution. It would be hell. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/132 "2022-12-05T16:31:02Z")
I do not love this board enough to watch Fox News. But I read an article. They _are_ covering it, at least on their website. > **[White House responds to Trump demanding to terminate parts of the...](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-responds-to-trump-demanding-to-terminate-parts-of-the-constitution-after-twitter-files-release/ar-AA14T5M6)** > > President Biden's White House condemned former President Trump for calling for the termination of parts of the U.S. Constitution this week. Trump faced attacks from all sides. I did a Google search for “Newsmax Trump throw out the Constitution” and there was only one Newsmax result on Page 1, which said, “‘Get Trump!’ Damn the Constitution.” The preview said, “They are prepared to sacrifice constitutional rights, civil liberties, principles, and the rule of law to stop President Donald Trump.” It’s dated August 26, 2022. I did not go to Page 2. If it’s not on Page 1, abandon your search. You won’t find what you’re looking for. I can only assume that Newsmax is ignoring it. Which doesn’t surprise me. I got no results at all from Frank Speech. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/133 "2022-12-05T16:36:13Z")
Does anyone think Trump understands the Constitution well enough to earn a “C” in the most grade-inflation-crazy professor’s course in Constitutional Law? All he knows is that it is a barrier to some of followers in endorsing all of his narcissistic notions about why he should be declared POTUS ASAP. So it must be done away with. He doesn’t know what it says, when it was written, by whom, or why, he just knows it’s a big word that he can pronounce and it comes up often as a reason for him not to get whatever he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/134 "2022-12-05T16:36:26Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > One would think that would argue for a blanket condemnation of Trump as a candidate for any public office but the modern GOP has become very ‘woke’ about ‘abelism’, as least insofar as it comes to moral deficiency and mental incapacity as disability. Which is, to me, the most terrifying thing. Trump is nuts and desperate. Anyone can see this. But the Republican party’s failure to repudiate his unacceptable words should frighten everyone. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Of course, like “Grab them by the pussy,” _Quid Pro Quo_, Trump’s recommendation for people to inject themselves with bleach, and meeting with Putin _in camera_, it will be forgotten in a week by the media looking for a hot new story instead of “Here is plain evidence of autocratic intent by a would-be fascist…and even if you don’t think Trump is going to go anywhere with this, **Ron DeSantis is right behind him taking notes**.” (Emphasis mine.) I hope people will dig deep enough into DeSantis and his politics to understand this. Same with others who are mumbling quietly in the background about taking a run at the Republican nomination, including Mike Pompeo, Brian Kemp, Mike Pence and others. They are all authoritarian brothers under the skin and should never be allowed anywhere near the levers of true power. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/135 "2022-12-05T16:36:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of course, if the Constitution is terminated, then there’s no such thing as a President. That was not lost with me, however we are talking about Trump here, logic, wisdom and intelligence does not matter in his fantasy world that he exists in. All that matters to him is what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/136 "2022-12-05T16:43:45Z")
Besides, why be a mere president when you can be an emperor? _Emperor Donald, First of his name, Protector of the American Way, God’s annointed_ has a nice ring to it – in his mind. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/137 "2022-12-05T16:47:02Z")
I wonder how Mr. Drake would respond if a prominent Democrat has said something like this. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/138 "2022-12-05T16:55:17Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > How is this being portrayed on conservative media? Ignored? I’d guess “Trump is the _real_ victim here. Lamestream media are making this up.” ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/139 "2022-12-05T16:59:27Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Besides, why be a mere president when you can be an emperor? Yes I know being President was never big enough for Trump grand wet dream. And why Jan 6th was so critical to his plans for one nation under Trump. If he succeeded in Jan 6th he would have effectively nullified the constitution which would open the door for him to be emperor. I’m sure Trump has though of that and was Trump’s desired way of winning, much better then winning in a Ronald Reagan style landslide. In this the less votes he got, the more he secured his reign if he could have achieved his Jan 6th goal. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990/140 "2022-12-05T17:04:49Z")
On one right wing message board they’re playing the reliable hits from 2016: "Stupid libs are once again focusing on what he says instead of what he _means_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-might-have-called-for-the-termination-of-the-constitution/975990.md?page=8)