# Trump now wants to use military force to take the Panama Canal and Greenland **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 7, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691 "2025-01-07T20:27:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/241 "2025-01-18T08:18:31Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > National politicians in the USA damn well ought to be able to name all the states of our next-door neighbors, our major allies, and any nation they’re making loud noises about in public. And they ought to be able to employ people who can get that sort of information into their hands (if not necessarily brains) at the point it’s needed. And they ought not to believe they can dispense with all that and just rely on what’s off the top of their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/242 "2025-01-18T10:22:02Z")
I just came across this substack article about territorial claims between countries, and tactics, tricks and cheats used by politicians to interfere in other country’s business that seems to me relevant here: > **[What has Greenland to do with Transylvania?](https://open.substack.com/pub/stephanmueller/p/what-has-greenland-to-do-with-transylvania?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web)** > > some thoughts I must admit this statistic surprised me: > A poll of the [PEW Research Centre in 2019](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/02/09/nato-seen-favorably-across-member-states/) in NATO countries included the question, if there are parts of neighbouring countries that actually belong to them and not to the neighbour. The NATO median was a striking 35% of people who are of the opinion that actually parts of neighbouring countries belong to them. > In the U.S. modest 19% were of this opinion; in Hungary 67%. I am sure this meagre 19% can be raised with propaganda. The USA does not always have to go to the other end of the World to start a fight. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/243 "2025-01-18T14:37:53Z")
It’s a different question, of course, but I bet a lot more than 19% of Americans believe that northern Canada is international waters. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/244 "2025-01-18T14:40:12Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > in Hungary 67%. I don’t think Hungary has ever accepted the Treaty of Trianon. > **[Treaty of Trianon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon)** > > The Treaty of Trianon (French: Traité de Trianon; Hungarian: Trianoni békediktátum; Italian: Trattato del Trianon; Romanian: Tratatul de la Trianon), often referred to in Hungary as the Peace Dictate of Trianon or Dictate of Trianon, was prepared at the Paris Peace Conference. It was signed on the one side by Hungary and, on the other, by the Allied and Associated Powers, in the Grand Trianon château in Versailles on 4 June 1920. It formally terminated the state of war issued As part of the Aus... ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/245 "2025-01-18T14:57:50Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I don’t think Hungary has ever accepted the Treaty of Trianon. That depends on what you mean by “Hungary” and “accepted”, but as your wikiquote states: > was **signed on the one side by Hungary** and, on the other, by the Allied and Associated Powers Somebody representing Hungary signed that treaty and thus accepted it. But the author of that substack, who claims to have lived in Hungary for 20 years, writes that he was himself surprised that the number was _ **as low as** _ 67%. Somebody else, also representing Hungary, has renegued on that signature and does no longer accept the Treaty of Trianon today as binding. Giving people in other countries statehood\* in your country and allowing them to vote for you is a neat trick, I must admit. \*terms and conditions apply, but are written in favour of the issuer of passports. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/246 "2025-01-18T15:06:06Z")
Good points, but the provisional Hungarian government was not party to any negotiations about the Treaty. The Allies drafted it and presented it to the provisional government, saying “Sign it or else the armistice is ended and we resume war”. That’s why one of the names for the Treaty in Hungary is the Dictate of Trianon. During WWII, Hungary gained some of the territory it considered unlawfully taken away by the Treaty, thanks to the intervention of Nazi Germany, but that was undone after the war and the Treaty boundaries were restored. Moral of the tale: always chose the winning side in a war that involves territorial integrity. ETA: don’t side with Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/247 "2025-01-18T15:12:17Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Moral of the tale: always chose the winning side in a war that involves territorial integrity. Sage advice. Now, returning to Panama and Greenland, I hope that does not mean that we should take the side of the USA and they should surrender pre-emptively. To be clear, I did not mean that link as a hijack, but as an example of the methods that have been applied in the past and are currently being used to claim sovereignity over other people’s territories. Of which tanTrump himself is probably not aware, but somebody in his administration will be. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/248 "2025-01-18T15:20:52Z")
On another tack, geographical contiguity would suggest that if Greenland needs to be associated with a power other than Denmark, it ought to be Canada 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/249 "2025-01-18T16:10:02Z")
Plus Alaska. As Senator Fetterman said, boundary lines drawn by governments in the colonial era should be subject to revision. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/250 "2025-01-19T03:06:15Z")
Agreed. I submit here once again, why do we need a North _and_ South Dakota? Does Wyoming really qualify as a separate state? It has a smaller population than Oklahoma _City_. Tiny Rhode Island has a larger population. That way, we have room to make Canada _and_ Greenland into states, and still keep the magic number of 50. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/251 "2025-01-19T06:48:22Z")
But Greenland’s population is less than one tenth of Wyoming’s. And six of Canada’s provinces have bigger populations than Rhode Island. One could probably play this game forever. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/252 "2025-01-19T06:51:11Z")
That’s some brilliant shuffling. Well, except for the Canada part. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/253 "2025-01-19T07:38:14Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > It’s a different question, of course, but I bet a lot more than 19% of Americans believe that northern Canada is international waters. Well, then, by that logic, the East River in New York City should be international waters. So should the strait separating mainland California from Catalina Island. Sauce for the goose, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/254 "2025-01-19T10:43:59Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Sauce for the goose, and so on. _Narrows eyes suspiciously_ What _kind_ of goose? It had better not be a Freedom Goose, soon to be a proud symbol of America! ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/255 "2025-01-19T11:32:56Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > a Freedom Goose Is that another of Trump’s forms of greeting? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/256 "2025-01-19T14:57:17Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > It had better not be a Freedom Goose Some people here _hate_ the Freedom Geese, because the Freedom Geese crap all over their golf courses. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/257 "2025-01-19T16:21:47Z")
Freedom isn’t free ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/258 "2025-01-19T16:57:35Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > But Greenland’s population is less than one tenth of Wyoming’s. > > And six of Canada’s provinces have bigger populations than Rhode Island. Shush. Clearly you do not understand Relublogic. The Dakotas are contiguous, whereas Greenland is separate, like Alaska or Hawaii. And Trump said Canada should be _a_ state, so that’s all it gets. Though come to think of it, Canada should just be an extension of Alaska, and that gives us room for … Panama. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/259 "2025-01-20T00:32:42Z")
> [@abcdefghij](#): > > Freedom isn’t free Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/260 "2025-01-21T21:31:22Z")
> [@StringsandHammers](#): > > I really didn’t see the point of bringing up Greenland’s relatively peaceful history especially consider our history is far worse… My point was that Greenlands citizens are given a much better deal than in the US. Today I learned a new word: **forældrekompetenceundersøgelse** It is Danish and it means something like parental competency exam in matters pertaining to education and raising children, in particular your own. According to this [Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/25/danish-parenting-tests-baby-removed-from-greenlandic-mother) article, > According to a 2022 report, 5.6% of children with a Greenlandic background living in Denmark are placed into care, compared with 1% of those with a Danish background. That means that the Danish government, based on the results of a forældrekompetenceundersøgelse test, has denied citicens of Greenland the custody of their own children in more than one case out of 20. It seems that they have stopped that policy literally just now, this very week. I am not saying that this is worse than or even comparable to the Trail of Tears, I am saying that this is the kind of story the usual manipulators will blow up out of all proportion when it suits them. And it looks already like a big deal. The Danish government has realized that this policy was not useful and it seems it has changed course. There will be other examples that the usual manipulators will dig up. PS: No, I did not really learn that word, and I have trouble reading it aloud. It is just like that Icelandic volcano from a couple of years ago. Eyjaffjallajökkull or something like that [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691.md?page=14)