# Trump now wants to use military force to take the Panama Canal and Greenland **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 7, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691 "2025-01-07T20:27:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/101 "2025-01-09T14:53:12Z")
Even if Greenland had conscription, there are only 55,000 Greenlanders, of which perhaps 2,000 or 4,000 may be of fighting age. Oklahoma or Alabama could defeat Greenland with one hand tied behind their back. But it would be easier and cheaper to buy them off while bombarding them with propaganda over Twitter, TV, Facebook and the other weapons in Murdock’s arsenal. They are well tested and they work. Booze and blankets with smallpox are also a well tried out tradition in some countries. They worked in the past. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Pick just about any recent use of military force by the US. See how many of them involve declarations of war of Congressional approval. Declaring war is an anachronism, it was never necessary to start a war, but now nobody pretends to do it. Did Putin declare war on Ukraine? He still claims it is a Special Military Operation. Did the USA declare war on Afghanistan or Irak? Or did the bombs just start raining down? And concernig Congressional approval: it is nice to have. But what are they going to do if you don’t ask and just proceed anyway? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/102 "2025-01-09T14:56:03Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > I was under the impression the US could act unilaterally in defense, but not in offense. Just in case there is something to this, Trump could claim that a Greenlander had committed a crime against a U.S. airman. Maybe someone snuck into our airbase to buy cheap lunchmeats at the PX. National security! ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/103 "2025-01-09T14:57:54Z")
Just wanted to add I edited my post to correct “of Congressional approval” to “or.” It accepted that approval, but when I attempted to add this explanation, the boards said too much time had passed… ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/104 "2025-01-09T14:58:16Z")
There must be an old ship like the [USS Maine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(1889)) somewhere ready to be sunk (I guess my Spanish schooling is showing?). ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/105 "2025-01-09T15:17:19Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > That seems foolish. I was under the impression the US could act unilaterally in defense, but not in offense. [Where did you get that idea?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_of_2001) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/106 "2025-01-09T15:19:15Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > That seems foolish. I was under the impression the US could act unilaterally in defense, but not in offense. Ack! I meant the President, not the US. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/107 "2025-01-09T15:28:13Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > This is _very_ different from “I want to use military force to take the Panama Canal and Greenland.” Suggesting that invading an allied country is even an option is not just a profoundly immoral and disgusting thing to say, but is destabilizing to the security of the free world and clearly a gift to enemy states like Russia. Aren’t you embarrassed by this? How can you not be? If the leader of my country suggested we might invade an allied country, I’d be the first person marching on Parliament Hill screaming for his arrest and imprisonment. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/108 "2025-01-09T15:44:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Aren’t you embarrassed by this? How can you not be? If the leader of my country suggested we might invade an allied country, I’d be the first person marching on Parliament Hill screaming for his arrest and imprisonment. Virtually all of us are embarrassed by most everything Trump does. But there isn’t really anything we can do. And, as I’ve said over and over, he’s just looking for a reaction. I think the best thing is to not give it to him. That’s how you handle a toddler that says dumb things. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/109 "2025-01-09T15:57:45Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Virtually all of us are embarrassed by most everything Trump does. This is demonstrably false. A substantial minority of Americans are proud of him and another substantial minority are willing to put up with his antics because they see the potential for personal gain. At best, not quite half are embarrassed by the situation. Which is rather the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/110 "2025-01-09T15:58:53Z")
The Economist taking the position that a purchase of Greenland would be a shrewd move (, dude), and would be worth paying every Greenlander $1 million each. They aren’t fans of the way Trump has gone about it though. > **[An American purchase of Greenland could be the deal of the century](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/01/08/an-american-purchase-of-greenland-could-be-the-deal-of-the-century)** > > The economics of buying new territory ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/111 "2025-01-09T16:02:57Z")
Well, yeah, buying my neighbors’ houses for $1000 each would be a shrewd move, too. The part where I assume they’re giant morons who’d accept those terms is silly, though. This isn’t the 19th century anymore. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/112 "2025-01-09T16:03:04Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Virtually all of us are embarrassed Well, no, about half of American adults support him. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/113 "2025-01-09T16:46:59Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Well, yeah, buying my neighbors’ houses for $1000 each would be a shrewd move, too. > > The part where I assume they’re giant morons who’d accept those terms is silly, though Not saying I agree with The Economist on this one, but I don’t think that analogy maps well to what they are proposing. Buying my neighbours’ houses for $1,000 each means them accepting substantially less than market value and then not having a home. The Economist’s proposal means receiving a fair price and then nobody moving, or indeed needing to do anything. …just watching as guns flood in and books on inuit culture and history get banned. Anyway the point is, the arguments against this type of deal, assuming Trump were ever grown-up enough to put it in these terms are 1) Loss of sovereignty and 2) Trump _isn’t_ actually a grown-up, so even in the hypothetical where he strings together a sensible proposal it would be madness to trust him. But _not_ financially; the value of the land / resources per capita is huge. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/114 "2025-01-09T16:55:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Aren’t you embarrassed by this? How can you not be? If the leader of my country suggested we might invade an allied country, I’d be the first person marching on Parliament Hill screaming for his arrest and imprisonment. I am _absolutely_ embarrassed by this, and by the fact that people in my country willingly elected him as their president, twice. What you quoted was me making clarification that he did not, literally, say what the OP described, and what the title of this thread describes. It doesn’t make his words any less stupid or embarrassing, but he’s bad enough, without us misinterpreting him. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/115 "2025-01-09T16:58:04Z")
Just for reference, let’s take the Wayback Machine all the way back to the halcyon days of 2019: [https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-try-and-annex-greenland-if-denmark-persist-in-refusing-to-sell/](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-try-and-annex-greenland-if-denmark-persist-in-refusing-to-sell/) I’m Casey Kasem and this America’s Top 40 Most Ridiculous Ideas of Donald Trump. Number 7 is up next, and you won’t believe the story behind how this got past censors… Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/116 "2025-01-09T17:06:23Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The Economist’s proposal means receiving a fair price But what is a fair price? At $1M a person, that’s $55-56 billion. That’s way less than the value of the rare earths that could be extracted alone. Much less other mineral resources. Sure, there’s a price to pay to develop and extract, but that’s an insultingly low offer. Even ignoring the ethical and legal questions of sovereignty and so forth, at face value this is somebody offering to buy your property at much, much, much less than market value and calling you a fool for refusing. Or perhaps offering something closer to fair value? Yeah, that’s not happening. Trump’s record on real estate is, despite his reality TV persona, not so great. And telling American “oh yeah, we’re going to give every single Greenlander 8 or 9 figures” isn’t going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/117 "2025-01-09T17:13:09Z")
How much do you think Denmark is already contributing to Greenland’s budget each year? > **[How much money does Denmark provide Greenland? - Geographic FAQ Hub: Answers...](https://www.ncesc.com/geographic-faq/how-much-money-does-denmark-provide-greenland/)** > > How much money does Denmark provide Greenland? Denmark provides Greenland with an annual block grant of DKK 3.9 billion — roughly USD 511 million — that accounts for approximately 20 percent of Greenland’s GDP and more than half of the public budget.... On the other hand 50,000 inhabitants times one million each: 50 billion. A bit cheap for a country this big, just imagine the debt you could borrow against it! ETA: Ninja’d of course. Because it is evidently a very bad deal for Greenland. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/118 "2025-01-09T17:21:49Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > But what is a fair price? > > At $1M a person, that’s $55-56 billion. That’s way less than the value of the rare earths that could be extracted alone. Much less other mineral resources. Sure, there’s a price to pay to develop and extract, but that’s an insultingly low offer. Well they did show their working; right now it’s still currently hard to mine much, it’s a speculation against future access being easier (yay climate change!) and strategic value. And I don’t know that as many people would be insulted by the offer of $1 million (or more) that you think. I think a lot of people, particularly on the poorer end, will consider it. Let me state clearly though, before people take it that I am suggesting they should take such a deal: IMO they shouldn’t. You can’t trust Trump, or America in general, frankly. Let alone all the dangers of potentially importing American politics, laws, healthcare system etc. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/119 "2025-01-09T17:26:43Z")
> [@Blam Canada!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blam-canada/1012757/18): > > craft pilsners locally now for example. Those are becoming big here t > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > This is demonstrably false. > [@RickJay](#): > > Well, no, about half of American adults support him. I suppose I wasn’t clear that I meant those of us at the SDMB. And I’m going to be a little defensive here. The US is the largest (economically) and the most powerful, so Trump gets all the press. But MAGA-adjacent is happening in lots of places, including: Austria, Germany, France, The UK, India, Hungary, Italy, The Netherlands… Maybe Canada is being spared, and if so, good for Canada. But the US is not alone in this. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > At $1M a person, that’s $55-56 billion. That’s way less than the value of the rare earths that could be extracted alone. Much less other mineral resources. Sure, there’s a price to pay to develop and extract, but that’s an insultingly low offer. Greenland sits on about 17 billion barrels of oil, which is worth about $1.2 trillion. And that’s just the oil, there’s lots of other stuff there too. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691/120 "2025-01-09T18:03:47Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Greenland sits on about 17 billion barrels of oil, which is worth about $1.2 trillion. And that’s just the oil, there’s lots of other stuff there too. There is also the question of where all of these Greenlanders are supposed to go when someone decides to drill for oil or dig a pit mine on top of their house. Are we granting them US citizenship, or are they being shuffled off to Denmark, or maybe make them indentured servants working on the Faroe Islands so they can pay back what they ‘owe’. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-now-wants-to-use-military-force-to-take-the-panama-canal-and-greenland/1012691.md?page=7)