# Trump on Iran: what on earth can we do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 13, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760 "2017-10-13T21:26:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/1 "2017-10-13T21:26:44Z")
The tv game show host seemed to lose all sense today [in his speech](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41617488): > [@](#): > > The defence secretary, **James Mattis** , said this week that staying with the deal, under which Iran accepted strict curbs on its nuclear programme in exchange for sanctions relief, was in US national security interests. > [@](#): > > **The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff** , Gen Joseph Dunford, recently said that pulling out of the multilateral deal, which was signed by some of Washington’s closest allies, would affect US credibility and could hinder its ability to strike security agreements in the future. > [@](#): > > Trump’s **secretary of state** , Rex Tillerson, and national security adviser, HR McMaster, are both thought to have advised Trump not to withhold certification. > [@](#): > > “We encourage the US Administration and Congress to consider the implications to the security of the US and its allies before taking any steps that might undermine the JCPOA, such as re-imposing sanctions on Iran lifted under the agreement,” **French President Emmanuel Macron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and British Prime Minister Theresa May** said in a joint statement. > [@](#): > > **Nancy Pelosi** said Trump ignored “the overwhelming consensus of nuclear scientists, national security experts, generals and his own cabinet, including, reportedly, his secretary of defense and secretary of state”. > > Pelosi said Washington’s allies in Europe have no intention of leaving the seven-nation pact, adding that if Trump’s judgment leads to an unraveling of the deal, it will be the US that’s isolated, not Iran. > [@](#): > > **Madeleine Albright** : Undermining the Iran deal damages our security and isolates us from our allies. Trump’s speech was hysterical and dangerous I’d like to pose questions like what on earth did his mother do to him as a child?’ but the debate is: a. Is this a working definition of a leader gone rogue? b. what should the national and/or world community do about someone so ignorant, threatening and unstable? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/2 "2017-10-13T21:41:33Z")
> [@](#): > > a. Is this a working definition of a leader gone rogue? Rogue One. > [@](#): > > b. what should the national and/or world community do about someone so ignorant, threatening and unstable? As a world community? I guess make your own policy with Iran, don’t renew sanctions if you don’t feel they are warranted. Nationally? Drain the swamp. Or, vote this bozo out as soon as we can. If he really crosses the line then I hope those in a position to do something will. So far he hasn’t, so there really isn’t much that can be done about him except for folks to get over their snit with Hillary and basically vote for anyone that isn’t Trump in the next election, even if it isn’t (or is) the optimal Progressive Candidate™. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/3 "2017-10-13T23:13:28Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So far he hasn’t, so there really isn’t much that can be done about him except for folks to get over their snit with Hillary and basically vote for anyone that isn’t Trump in the next election, even if it isn’t (or is) the optimal Progressive Candidate™. I don’t get why you’d say folks need “to get over their snit with Hillary” to do that, unless you think they’d be dumb enough to run her again. (Pleeeease tell me you don’t think there’s reason to believe they’d run her again.) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/4 "2017-10-13T23:16:34Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > a. Is this a working definition of a leader gone rogue? Probably not, because he still has the backing of way too many politicians and the worst 30% of the populace. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > b. what should the national and/or world community do about someone so ignorant, threatening and unstable? I like to imagine that the other world leaders could publicly announce that they refuse to interact with him, and among them commit to that - canceling and rejecting offers to meet, not picking up phone calls, ignoring his twitter, denying entry into their countries. The statement would be that they would continue to accept the US’s existence as a country; the US would simply be refused a seat at the table. It would also be officially stated that the blacklisting would be removed instantly were an actual politician to assume control of the country, but until then, no. This won’t happen, of course, but I’d like to imagine it _could_. ---
**Author:** ![Obsidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@Obsidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obsidian)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/5 "2017-10-13T23:27:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I don’t get why you’d say folks need “to get over their snit with Hillary” to do that, unless you think they’d be dumb enough to run her again. > > (Pleeeease tell me you don’t think there’s reason to believe they’d run her again.) I think they mean all the people who stayed home/voted for Stein/whatever because Hillary wasn’t perfect, or wasn’t Bernie, or whatever. If they do the same because whomever runs in 2020 isn’t perfect. . . ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/6 "2017-10-14T00:14:00Z")
Trump might be right to not allow Iran to become another North Korea. We have plenty of Shia allies and Israel in the middle east. Stopping Iran from becoming a nuclear power might also stop other ME nations from acquiring nukes as well. Appeasing aggressive states rarely works. Had France responded militarily to the German militarization of the Rhineland history might be different today. Trump might be insane but he might also be right. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/7 "2017-10-14T00:28:01Z")
Right, the Nazis. WTF is the matter with people. ---
**Author:** ![MoodIndigo1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@MoodIndigo1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoodIndigo1)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/8 "2017-10-14T00:53:17Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I don’t get why you’d say folks need “to get over their snit with Hillary” to do that, unless you think they’d be dumb enough to run her again. > > (Pleeeease tell me you don’t think there’s reason to believe they’d run her again.) If I were her, I’d never run again, because of people like you. She’s given enough of her life to politics. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/9 "2017-10-14T01:04:34Z")
> [@MoodIndigo1](#): > > If I were her, I’d never run again, because of people like you. And a grateful nation could give me a medal. Would that it were so. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/10 "2017-10-14T02:18:39Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > b. what should the national and/or world community do about someone so ignorant, threatening and unstable? What do you think they should do? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/11 "2017-10-14T02:54:27Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Trump might be right to not allow Iran to become another North Korea. . . . Hey, kid, I’ll give you 25 cents a day to stop letting your dog poop on my lawn. (A couple weeks later.) No more money for you, kid, the deal’s off. That’s gonna protect my lawn how? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/12 "2017-10-14T03:10:15Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Hey, kid, I’ll give you 25 cents a day to stop letting your dog poop on my lawn. (A couple weeks later.) No more money for you, kid, the deal’s off. > > That’s gonna protect my lawn how? You seem unaware of their support of terror groups. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/13 "2017-10-14T03:13:22Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Hey, kid, I’ll give you 25 cents a day to stop letting your dog poop on my lawn. (A couple weeks later.) No more money for you, kid, the deal’s off. > > That’s gonna protect my lawn how? You keep paying the gang or mafia protection money. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/14 "2017-10-14T03:29:27Z")
Getting rid of the deal helps hardliners in Iran greatly, and has no benefit to the US. It greatly increases the chances Iran gets nukes soon, and therefore greatly increases the chances of war. Just really, really dumb. There’s no upside whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/15 "2017-10-14T03:41:25Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Trump might be right to not allow Iran to become another North Korea. We have plenty of Shia allies and Israel in the middle east. Stopping Iran from becoming a nuclear power might also stop other ME nations from acquiring nukes as well. > > Appeasing aggressive states rarely works. Had France responded militarily to the German militarization of the Rhineland history might be different today. > > Trump might be insane but he might also be right. How exactly does not certifying the deal prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon? Trump pulls out of the deal, Iran kicks out the inspectors and restarts their nuclear program. Isn’t that the exact opposite of stopping Iran from getting nuclear weapons? ---
**Author:** ![Willcross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Willcross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Willcross)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/16 "2017-10-14T04:31:01Z")
What does de-certifying even mean? Has that verbiage ever been used in terms of foreign policy before? Is it possible that trump will somehow “de-certify” the deal to please his base while it still functionally remains the same? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/17 "2017-10-14T06:06:32Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How exactly does not certifying the deal prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon? > > Trump pulls out of the deal, Iran kicks out the inspectors and restarts their nuclear program. Isn’t that the exact opposite of stopping Iran from getting nuclear weapons? If the Pubbies don’t pressure the Cabinet into a 25th Amendment solution, it will pretty much PROVE that thy learned NOTHING from the Iraq debacle. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/18 "2017-10-14T10:27:43Z")
I think the deal will stay in place, with or without the Americans, as long as it benefits all the other parties involved. And so far, it does. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/19 "2017-10-14T12:22:35Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > We have plenty of Shia allies zero is plenty? funny way of counting. of course it was this kind of counting that made your last intervention into the region so great a success. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760/20 "2017-10-14T12:27:22Z")
Some interesting background. Looks like there will be 60 days for Congress review the deal or it will continue. > **[What Trump’s decision to "decertify" the Iran nuclear deal actually does](https://www.vox.com/world/2017/10/13/16464084/trump-iran-nuclear-deal-decertify)** > > Trump’s big new Iran deal policy is both pointless and incredibly dangerous. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-on-iran-what-on-earth-can-we-do/798760.md?page=2)