# Trump, or American citizen selected at random? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 26, 2016, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728 "2016-05-26T07:06:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/41 "2016-05-27T15:35:27Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I’d be worried about the psychological effects of thrusting a random person in a position of such power. > > Are they going to be able to handle having the whole world have eyes on him/her? While at the same time making some very difficult decisions? I think I’d have a nervous breakdown if it were me. > \*\* > Besides, who’s going to be VP in this hypothetical?\*\* As the OP specified: > [@Velocity](#): > > You have a presidential choice: > > 1. Donald Trump, > > or > > 1. An American citizen - over 35 years old, Constitutionally eligible for the presidency in every regard - selected at random (yes, over 100 million names put into a lottery and drawn by a machine.) Could be any race, gender, religion, occupation, etc. \*\*The Vice President will be selected the same way. \*\*There are no 2nd drawings! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/42 "2016-05-27T18:03:44Z")
With great trepidation - it COULD be someone worse - I’ll take Random Citizen over Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/43 "2016-05-27T18:14:41Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > If he is a destructive buffoon, u are better off choosing a random person. > > But you are not choosing a random person which means you believe he is not a destructive buffoon. He’s a destructive buffoon relative to other people who have attempted to become president in recent years or who have expressed interest in doing so in the perhaps not so distant future. However, speaking in terms of Trump relative to the general population is a different matter altogether. There are a lot of other potentially more destructive buffoons out there. You do understand ‘relative’, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/44 "2016-05-27T18:19:56Z")
> [@Caldazar](#): > > Sarah Palin: Unqualified to be President, largely as unqualified as the general populace despite her experience in Alaska. Random citizen. > > Ted Cruz: Tough call. Same general issues as with Trump, but perhaps slightly less competent in handling day-to-day than Trump. Probably still Cruz over random citizen. > > George W. Bush: Bush over random citizen, no question, if only for his prior experience. Cruz is probably extremely competent. Despite being hated by colleagues in Congress, he ran an impressive campaign that was only outdone by Trump. However, he’s penchant for the politics of religious ideology would vastly outweigh any competence he brings to the table. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/45 "2016-05-27T18:21:28Z")
I guess this is one situation where I’d have to prefer Trump. Even if we took out all the people with senility and other disabilities that would interfere with the job, there are a lot of people who wouldn’t be willing to make President their highest priority. Parents, in particular. Sure the President can pay for good schools and nannies, but a lot of people would not be happy with long hours and travel away from their kids. Then there’s the chance we get someone from the KKK or BLM in there… nope, too big of a risk. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/46 "2016-05-27T18:33:47Z")
What would be wrong with getting someone from Black Lives Matter? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/47 "2016-05-27T18:44:55Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Cruz is probably extremely competent. Despite being hated by colleagues in Congress, he ran an impressive campaign that was only outdone by Trump. However, he’s penchant for the politics of religious ideology would vastly outweigh any competence he brings to the table. Not just religious politics. Ted Cruz adheres to a literally apocalyptic religious worldview, comparable to Islamic State, with some terms switched out. I’d vote for Trump before him (and Random Citizen before Trump). ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/48 "2016-05-27T19:03:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What would be wrong with getting someone from Black Lives Matter? For starters, it’s a movement that began because of trial-by-media using false eyewitness statements. We have a legal process that relies on things like evidence and juries and you don’t get to burn down half a town when you don’t like the outcome. Especially when your verdict is based on race. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/49 "2016-05-27T23:21:19Z")
Actually feelings shown in a thread like this strengthen the support for Trump among his supporters and neutrals. Seeing how one side has outright hate and unreasonable opinions for one of the candidates (Trump). From neutral voters PoV, you don’t want to be voting for a candidate (democrate) whose supporters are haters. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/50 "2016-05-27T23:32:55Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Actually feelings shown in a thread like this strengthen the support for Trump among his supporters and neutrals. Seeing how one side has outright hate and unreasonable opinions for one of the candidates (Trump). From neutral voters PoV, you don’t want to be voting for a candidate (democrate) whose supporters are haters. The unconscious irony is strong with this one. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/51 "2016-05-27T23:36:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The unconscious irony is strong with this one. Bah. Republicans’ perspectives about Clinton are best described as dispassionate, sober, and well-thought through. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/52 "2016-05-28T04:27:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Great responses everyone. > > I’m curious - now, what if it were random American citizen vs. Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, or George W. Bush (yes, I know, 22nd Amendment?) Not sure, but I can say that this Democrat would choose any of the Republican inside candidates over a random person. That includes Scott Walker and Rick Perry. Because I know they would have _institutional_ restraints that Donald and to some extent Cruz would not. Reality show contestants are fun to watch on TV because they lack ordinary social constraints - they say that they aren’t there to make friends. But most of us are here to make friends: we care about what others think of us. Trump, it seems, is wired differently. In order to locate 2 random people, I visited the General Social Survey’s 2012 website. Wow: it’s a pretty rich dataset. There were 2538 respondents and 895 questions. I anointed respondent number 500 as the President and 1000 as the VP. Oh no! Number 500 was not born in the US! Respondent number 1000 gets promoted to the Presidency and number 1500 is our new VP. Congratulations to them both. Let’s see how we did. [http://gss.norc.org/Get-Documentation](http://gss.norc.org/Get-Documentation) [http://gss.norc.org/get-the-data/stata](http://gss.norc.org/get-the-data/stata) Here’s a partial codebook: ```auto storage display value variable name type format label variable label --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- id int %8.0g RESPONDNT ID NUMBER sei10 double %12.0g LABB R's socioeconomic index (2010) age byte %8.0g AGE AGE OF RESPONDENT born byte %8.0g LABC WAS R BORN IN THIS COUNTRY sex byte %8.0g SEX RESPONDENTS SEX marital byte %8.0g MARITAL MARITAL STATUS martype byte %8.0g MARTYPE MARITAL TYPE divorce byte %8.0g LABC EVER BEEN DIVORCED OR SEPARATED widowed byte %8.0g LABC EVER BEEN WIDOWED childs byte %8.0g CHILDS NUMBER OF CHILDREN degree byte %8.0g LABAF RS HIGHEST DEGREE major1 byte %8.0g MAJOR1 COLLEGE MAJOR 1 income byte %8.0g LABAX TOTAL FAMILY INCOME prestg10 byte %8.0g LABA Rs occupational prestige score (2010) abany byte %8.0g LABC ABORTION IF WOMAN WANTS FOR ANY REASON abrape byte %8.0g LABC PREGNANT AS RESULT OF RAPE aidscndm byte %8.0g LABI CONDOM CAN REDUCE AIDS polviews byte %8.0g POLVIEWS THINK OF SELF AS LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE grass byte %8.0g GRASS SHOULD MARIJUANA BE MADE LEGAL relig byte %8.0g RELIG RS RELIGIOUS PREFERENCE denom byte %8.0g DENOM SPECIFIC DENOMINATION weekswrk byte %8.0g LABAL WEEKS R. WORKED LAST YEAR partfull byte %8.0g PARTFULL WAS R'S WORK PART-TIME OR FULL-TIME? unemp byte %8.0g LABC EVER UNEMPLOYED IN LAST TEN YRS owngun byte %8.0g LABBO HAVE GUN IN HOME news byte %8.0g NEWS HOW OFTEN DOES R READ NEWSPAPER compuse byte %8.0g LABC R USE COMPUTER usewww byte %8.0g LABC R USE WWW OTHER THAN EMAIL wwwhr int %8.0g LABAK WWW HOURS PER WEEK wwwmin byte %8.0g LABAL WWW MINUTES PER WEEK intrhome byte %8.0g LABM INTERNET ACCESS IN R'S HOME astrosci byte %8.0g ASTROSCI ASTROLOGY IS SCIENTIFIC hotcore byte %8.0g LABR SCI KNOWLEDGE: THE CENTER OF EARTH IS VERY HOT radioact byte %8.0g LABR SCI KNOWLEDGE:ALL RADIOACTIVITY IS MAN-MADE ``` .a indicates missing data. [spoiler] Our next **President** is a 60 year old female (I added 4 years because the survey was taken in 2012). She’s never been married. On a scale of 1 to 100 her socioeconomic index is 13.6, whatever that means. Her highest degree is junior college: her income group is $10,000 per year. She majored in education. She doesn’t think that a condom can reduce the risk of Aids. She works full time, never reads the newspaper, never uses a computer and does not have internet in the home. She’s had a spell of unemployment within the past 10 years. She’s Catholic and considers herself a political moderate. She opposes the legalization of marijuana. She got the last 2 science questions correct, but thinks astrology is “Sort of” scientific. She has one child. Our next \*\* Vice President\*\* is a 77 year old married man, who has never been widowed or divorced. His socioeconomic index is 13.3. He has less than a high school education and makes $25,000 per year. He believes a condom can reduce the risk of Aids and he thinks of himself as extremely conservative. He works part time and hasn’t been unemployed in the past 10 years. He thinks pot should be illegal. He is a Methodist. He reads the newspaper, doesn’t use a computer but does have internet in his home. He has 2 children. His 2 science views check out and he doesn’t think astrology is a science. I hope I got that right. Here’s the data: ```auto . list id sei10 age born sex marital martype divorce widowed childs degree major1 income prestg10 abany abra > pe aidscndm polviews grass relig denom weekswrk partfull unemp owngun news compuse usewww wwwhr wwwmin intr > home astrosci hotcore radioact in 1000 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 1000. | id | sei10 | age | born | sex | marital | martype | divorce | widowed | childs | degree | | 1000 | 13.6 | 56 | yes | female | NEVER MA | iap | .a | .a | 1 | JUNIOR C | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | major1 | income | prestg10 | abany | abrape | aidscndm | polviews | grass | relig | denom | | educatio | $10000 - | 21 | .a | .a | No | moderate | NOT LEGA | catholic | iap | |----------+----------+------------------+--------+----------+----------------------------------------| | weekswrk | partfull | unemp | owngun | news | compuse | usewww | wwwhr | wwwmin | intrhome | | 52 | FULL-TIM | yes | iap | never | no | .a | iap | iap | No | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | astrosci | hotcore | radioact | | Sort of | True | False | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ . list id sei10 age born sex marital martype divorce widowed childs degree major1 income prestg10 abany abra > pe aidscndm polviews grass relig denom weekswrk partfull unemp owngun news compuse usewww wwwhr wwwmin intr > home astrosci hotcore radioact in 1500 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 1500. | id | sei10 | age | born | sex | marital | martype | divorce | widowed | childs | degree | major1 | | 1500 | 13.3 | 73 | yes | male | married | Marriage | no | no | 2 | LT HIGH | .a | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | income | prestg10 | abany | abrape | aidscndm | polviews | grass | relig | denom | | $25000 O | 16 | .a | .a | Yes | EXTRMLY | NOT LEGA | protesta | METHODIS | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | weekswrk | partfull | unemp | owngun | news | compuse | usewww | wwwhr | wwwmin | intrhome | | 50 | PART-TIM | no | iap | everyday | no | .a | iap | iap | Yes | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | astrosci | hotcore | radioact | | Not at a | True | False | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ``` [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/53 "2016-05-28T07:22:20Z")
I can’t accept those as being my only choices. Cancel the poll, please, and repost it with a guarantee that the random citizens are not Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/54 "2016-05-28T14:10:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I can’t accept those as being my only choices. > > Cancel the poll, please, and repost it with a guarantee that the random citizens are not Republicans. Nope, not everything goes your way. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/55 "2016-05-28T15:44:23Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Actually feelings shown in a thread like this strengthen the support for Trump among his supporters and neutrals. Seeing how one side has outright hate and unreasonable opinions for one of the candidates (Trump). From neutral voters PoV, you don’t want to be voting for a candidate (democrate) whose supporters are haters. What a crock of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/56 "2016-05-28T16:23:04Z")
Trump. I think at his core Trump has some very competent traits. He succeeded in business and rose in politics pretty well. Some random joe blow would not be as competent. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/57 "2016-05-28T18:21:53Z")
Trump is competent at getting his. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/58 "2016-05-28T18:42:38Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Trump. I think at his core Trump has some very competent traits. He succeeded in business and rose in politics pretty well. Some random joe blow would not be as competent. > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Trump is competent at getting his. That’s all. That’s the problem. Trump isn’t constrained by the desire to be approved by those he respects, unlike most people and most politicians. The 2 random folks I selected would be preferable to Trump in my view. I don’t think they would be preferable to GWBush. Or even Ted Cruz, who very much is unusually self interested. But Trump seems to want to take domination politics over to the world stage. That’s a recipe for pointless and unreasoned warfare. I would pick my pairing over Trump, but not over Fiorina, Cruz, Huckabee or Palin. I suppose my random pairing could be preferable to some of those characters if I actually knew more about them. [Ezra Klein at Vox](http://www.vox.com/2016/2/10/10956978/donald-trump-terrifying): [INDENT][INDENT] There are places where I think his instincts are an improvement on the Republican field. He seems more dovish than neoconservatives like Marco Rubio, and less dismissive of the social safety net than libertarians like Rand Paul. But those candidates are checked by institutions and incentives that hold no sway over Trump; his temperament is so immature, his narcissism so clear, his political base so unique, his reactions so strange, that I honestly have no idea what he would do — or what he wouldn’t do. [/INDENT][/INDENT] It’s not knowing what Trump wouldn’t do which makes the random person superior. PS: My selection wasn’t truly random. I suspect (but don’t know) that the GSS oversampled the elderly and reported weighted results. I didn’t use weightings. PPS: “Nope, not everything goes your way. Deal with it.” _:😭:_ Sheesh, shouldn’t the leader of the ticket be able to pick their own VP? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/59 "2016-05-28T20:45:44Z")
Trump is only competent at “getting his” if you count choice of parents as a form of competence. He started rich and got richer, but at a slower rate than if he had just invested in index funds. He _is_ extremely competent at getting a lot of attention, but that’s not only not a qualification for the Presidency; it’s an anti-qualification. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728/60 "2016-05-28T22:15:23Z")
I voted for Trump because selecting a random citizen is a violation of democratic norms. I probably was supposed to put that aside, but I couldn’t. Much as I dislike Trump, I have high confidence that, if impeached and convicted, he would then leave office, and, otherwise, he would leave at the end of the elected term or terms. Power corrupts. The personality of the random person will change when millions of people hate him or her at the same time he is granted the power to get back at them. Most likely, this personality change will be for the worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-or-american-citizen-selected-at-random/755728.md?page=4)