# Trump: Peace Candidate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611 "2016-03-11T02:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/21 "2016-03-11T03:21:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m compelled to ask if we are living in the same universe. Lincoln and Putin are interchangable in yours, while in mine Lincoln is known as perhaps the most respected president in history. > > In my world, McCain has called for ground invasions of Iraq (multiple times), Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Georgia, Serbia, and probably several other countries I can’t remember. Obama removed all troops from Iraq and 90% from Afghanistan. And you think they are “pretty close.” It’s like you speak a language that reads like English, but the words all mean different things… Lincoln killed more innocents than Putin has thus far. Again, it’s all relative. Obama doubled down in Afghanistan, and we are still there. Obama was restrained by the public from attacking Syria. McCain would have faced the same opposition. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/22 "2016-03-11T03:25:01Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Given that he’s never held office, Trump hasn’t had the opportunity to create bodies. Rhetoric is all we have to go on. And his rhetoric is a constant refrain - the US is weak, other counties don’t respect the US, other countries are laughing at the US. Hard to imagine that as the foundation of a dovish presidency. > > Neither Trump nor Clinton are peace candidates. Whether one is more hawkish than the other is a different question. The U.S. Is weak. Other countries do not respect us and are laughing at us. True statements. The narrative of U.S. military prowess is much myth. Trump is unafraid to take an antiwar stance, very publicly and indignantly. That makes him a peace candidate, especially when matched up with Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/23 "2016-03-11T03:31:24Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The U.S. Is weak. Other countries do not respect us and are laughing at us. True statements. The narrative of U.S. military prowess is much myth. Ok…how do you get from there to fewer military entanglements? Again, Trump’s rhetoric is bellicose at every turn. I don’t think he plans to restore the allegedly lost respect and prestige by shaming the world with how peaceful we can be. > [@](#): > > Trump is unafraid to take an antiwar stance, very publicly and indignantly. That makes him a peace candidate, especially when matched up with Clinton. What antiwar stance? Iraq, or presently? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/24 "2016-03-11T03:33:14Z")
He’ll only be behind peace if peace is marketable, available for sale on Sharper Image and is called “Trump Peace”. He’ll guarantee it works, it’ll be yuge, Yadda Yadda, blame Obama when it fails a week later… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/25 "2016-03-11T03:44:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m compelled to ask if we are living in the same universe. Lincoln and Putin are interchangable in yours, while in mine Lincoln is known as perhaps the most respected president in history. Remember, you’re talking to a guy who uses the phrase, “War of Northern Aggression” unironically. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/26 "2016-03-11T03:54:50Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Ok…how do you get from there to fewer military entanglements? Again, Trump’s rhetoric is bellicose at every turn. I don’t think he plans to restore the allegedly lost respect and prestige by shaming the world with how peaceful we can be. > > What antiwar stance? Iraq, or presently? Well, yes Iraq, but he also vocally rejected the establishment anti-Putin, anti-Assad posturing and warmongering. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/27 "2016-03-11T03:57:20Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > He’ll only be behind peace if peace is marketable Do your part to make it so. Stop worrying about the spigot. > [@Miller](#): > > Remember, you’re talking to a guy who uses the phrase, “War of Northern Aggression” unironically. Question: Who has killed more innocents, Putin or Lincoln? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/28 "2016-03-11T04:03:56Z")
The new Trump song: 'I don’t want war. All I want is peace. Peace. Peace! A little piece of [China](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/opinion/sunday/donald-the-dangerous.html?_r=0) A little piece of [France](http://www.newsweek.com/why-trump-wrong-trade-and-tariffs-365454?piano_d=1) A little piece of [Mexico](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/09/donald-trump-president-could-lead-to-trade-war-mexico-vicente-fox) And [Canada](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/255053-trump-vows-to-renegotiate-or-break-trade-pact-with-mexico-canada) perchance A little slice of [Turkey](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/trump-putin-isil-turkey-216309) And all that that entails…’ Tip to Mel Brooks… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/29 "2016-03-11T04:17:36Z")
Endearing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/30 "2016-03-11T04:25:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Endearing. Indeed, oh BTW: Eventually, trade wars turned into World War II. “History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme” -Joseph Anthony Wittreich ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/31 "2016-03-11T12:13:20Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Well, yes Iraq, but he also vocally rejected the establishment anti-Putin, anti-Assad posturing and warmongering. That means Trump is an authoritarian, not a peacenik. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/32 "2016-03-11T12:26:31Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Do your part to make it so. Stop worrying about the spigot. > > Question: Who has killed more innocents, Putin or Lincoln? Putin. Next question. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/33 "2016-03-11T12:33:08Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Question: Who has killed more innocents, Putin or Lincoln? Hmmm… are armed insurrectionists who fired on a federal fort innocent? I’m going to say no. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/34 "2016-03-11T12:48:58Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Question: Who has killed more innocents, Putin or Lincoln? Davis. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/35 "2016-03-11T13:08:30Z")
Yeah, Putin has sent his Air Force to support a dictator who has probably killed twice as many civilians as were killed by both sides in the Civil War. Not to mention that I think there’s pretty good reason to believe that Putinnhas ordered assassinations of political opponents, for no other reason than they spoke out against Putin. I don’t think Lincoln ever poisoned a guy with polonium. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/36 "2016-03-11T13:44:18Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Well, yes Iraq, but he also vocally rejected the establishment anti-Putin, anti-Assad posturing and warmongering. There’s an argument for the relative hawkishness of Trump and Clinton, but on balance, Trump isn’t a peace candidate. We may have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/37 "2016-03-11T14:30:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Indeed, oh BTW: Eventually, trade wars turned into World War II. > > “History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme” -Joseph Anthony Wittreich I’m glad you brought up this point. It’s a point the Sanders supporters would never admit, or even know to admit. The threat of protectionism is very real in America right now. > [@Ravenman](#): > > That means Trump is an authoritarian, not a peacenik. They are not mutually exclusive. In any case, the only way forward in Syria is to allow Assad to defeat the religious fundamentalists who are being funded from without. > [@CGav8r](#): > > Putin. Next question. Who had killed more innocents, the United States government with the support of Clinton since the reign of Putin, or Putin? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Hmmm… are armed insurrectionists who fired on a federal fort innocent? I’m going to say no. Didn’t say they were. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Yeah, Putin has sent his Air Force to support a dictator who has probably killed twice as many civilians as were killed by both sides in the Civil War. > > Not to mention that I think there’s pretty good reason to believe that Putinnhas ordered assassinations of political opponents, for no other reason than they spoke out against Putin. I don’t think Lincoln ever poisoned a guy with polonium. There’s an argument to be made that the confederates were political dissidents, seeing that Lincoln’s hardcore no-secession ideology was a matter of politics. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > There’s an argument for the relative hawkishness of Trump and Clinton, but on balance, Trump isn’t a peace candidate. We may have to agree to disagree. Ok ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/38 "2016-03-11T14:50:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’m glad you brought up this point. It’s a point the Sanders supporters would never admit, or even know to admit. > > The threat of protectionism is very real in America right now. I’m a Sanders supporter, and I think he’s dead wrong on free trade and protectionism, as is Trump. You choose from the candidates you have, not the ideal candidate you wish you had. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/39 "2016-03-11T14:53:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > They are not mutually exclusive. In any case, the only way forward in Syria is to allow Assad to defeat the religious fundamentalists who are being funded from without. For all practical purposes, they are mutually exclusive. Authoritarians gravitate toward the militaristic state. You of all people should be arguing this point. And the only way out of Syria is for Assad to go, because the extremist terrorist conflict is simply overlaid on the civil war that was going on long before ISIL became a thing. > [@](#): > > There’s an argument to be made that the confederates were political dissidents, seeing that Lincoln’s hardcore no-secession ideology was a matter of politics. Except that the South’ military fired the first shots, whereas Putin’s enemies --er, victims-- didn’t take up arms against him. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611/40 "2016-03-11T15:33:12Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’m a Sanders supporter, and I think he’s dead wrong on free trade and protectionism, as is Trump. You choose from the candidates you have, not the ideal candidate you wish you had. I agree. Sanders lost though. I’m talking about the general election when the major candidates are likely to be Clinton and Trump. > [@Ravenman](#): > > For all practical purposes, they are mutually exclusive. Authoritarians gravitate toward the militaristic state. You of all people should be arguing this point. I’m against authoritarians of peaceful and militaristic stripe. That does not mean that I would not refuse to provoke them unnecessarily. Trump does. He obviously sees there are practical limits to government power. Clinton does not believe there are practical limits to US power. She believes we should provoke Russia and eliminate another regional strongman. She doesn’t show that she can learn. Too old and ideological. The major party choices in the U.S. will be between an authoritarian Trump who shows an inclination toward peace at times, and an authoritarian Clinton who has never shown an inclination toward peace in any circumstance. > [@](#): > > And the only way out of Syria is for Assad to go, because the extremist terrorist conflict is simply overlaid on the civil war that was going on long before ISIL became a thing. Your conclusion does not follow from your statement of fact. There is a civil war that is complicating the “extremist terrorist conflict”. It does not follow that Assad must go. This is why I believe “Assad must go” has become a cult. The best scenario for an end to the civil war is to allow Assad defeat the religious fundamentalists funded from without. Any scenario you cook up where Assad is ousted results in more death. > [@](#): > > Except that the South’ military fired the first shots, whereas Putin’s enemies --er, victims-- didn’t take up arms against him. You don’t think there are forces aimed at toppling Putin from within? Lincoln doesn’t even have that leg to stand on. Nobody was interested in toppling Lincoln, they simply wanted out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-peace-candidate/748611.md?page=3)