# Trump Pit Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2016, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959 "2016-03-14T09:23:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/61 "2016-03-14T20:23:04Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, the motto of the board is about fighting ignorance, and most of the criticisms of Trump on this board are either factually wrong or, in the case where his few corporate bankruptcies are trumpeted but his many more successes are ignored, slanted so as to create a false impression and thereby increase ignorance as to Trump’s record and degree of success. > > There’s a phenomenon at work on this board where correction of facts equals support for the accused. I would think that to any thoughtful person this would be a problem. And you learned this at Trump U, no doubt. Trump’s bankruptcies are the least of his problems. You like the Sieg Trump salutes, for instance? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/62 "2016-03-14T20:31:21Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > …You like the Sieg Trump salutes, for instance? Seriously? Supporters are giving him the Nazi salute??? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/63 "2016-03-14T20:37:51Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Seriously? Supporters are giving him the Nazi salute??? At one of his recent rallies, he had supporters swear an oath of loyalty(bad enough) and issued a semi-threat to those who might break it. Raised hands were part of taking the oath and a large number of attendees rather than palm even with their ear and a right angle elbow, extended a flat palm arm toward Trump. Sort of a 90% Nazi salute. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/64 "2016-03-14T20:43:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And I hope there are enough conservatives like you in the Republican party to make the difference. > > Though I do have a question: is it issues based–that, as much as you hate Clinton, you think she has more of the issues correct (even if that’s an incredibly low bar)? Or does it have more to do with your evaluation of Trump’s ability to do the job? > > And how would you vote in Cruz v. Clinton, if you don’t mind me asking? I don’t hate Clinton. I think she’s willing to lie, but I also think she’s been the target of so many unfair attacks that I sort of give her a pass on a lot of her dodges. Not all of them, but … Anyway, she’s a capable politician. But I’d feel dirty voting for her because I oppose so many of her basic platform planks. So I think she has very few issues correct. The problem with Trump, of course, is i have no idea what issues he has correct, because I have no confidence he’ll stick to anything he’s said. Secretary Clinton is also untrustworthy, in a sense – but it’s not the same. She might lie about sniper fire, but not about her support for trade agreements. And I am reasonably confident she won’t embarrass the United States. She’s practical and seasoned. Cruz v. Clinton would most likely be Cruz. And still need a shower. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/65 "2016-03-14T20:50:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, the motto of the board is about fighting ignorance, and most of the criticisms of Trump on this board are either factually wrong or, in the case where his few corporate bankruptcies are trumpeted but his many more successes are ignored, slanted so as to create a false impression and thereby increase ignorance as to Trump’s record and degree of success. > > There’s a phenomenon at work on this board where correction of facts equals support for the accused. I would think that to any thoughtful person this would be a problem. I don’t know about “most,” but you’re absolutely right: many criticisms of Trump on this board are factually flawed or technically true but deceptive. And I have spoken many times about how distressing it is, on a board supposedly devoted to fighting ignorance, to find that any correction of facts is taken to be overall support for the accused. If you accuse Idi Amin of being an arsonist, my pointing out that there’s no evidence of arson in his past does not mean I support Idi Amin. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/66 "2016-03-14T21:13:32Z")
Sure, sure. I wonder what color shirts they’ll pick out. > **[Trump militia forms to 'forcefully protect' rally goers against 'far-left...](https://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/trump-militia-forms-to-forcefully-protect-rally-goers-against-far-left-agitators/)** > > A group of Donald Trump supporters over the weekend called for volunteers to join a would-be militia aiming to protect voters against so-called “violent far-left agitators.”In recent days, violence at Trump's rallies has escalated to match the... ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/67 "2016-03-14T21:20:16Z")
Count me as one who is not terribly confident that Clinton will win. I think she’ll _probably_ win, but this election has broken my understanding of the American electorate and indeed of reality itself. So, I dunno. A 1% chance of Trump wining is too high for my taste. Also, what **jsgoddess** said. His campaign has already harmed us all. I’m white, but my wife is not. And I do get just a touch worried when a nativist presidential candidate encourages – or at least excuses – violence against his opponents. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Not just the level of partisanship, but the public acceptance of racism, bigotry, and violence. He is making the country worse just by being a viable candidate for the nomination for one of our major political parties. > > Yes, some of it is funny, in that “Lordy, that’s fucked up!” way. Yes, as a liberal, I’m happy to see the Republican party damaged, in the hopes that it will reform itself. > > But you know, I’m safe. I’m white. Trump isn’t attacking me. He isn’t putting a target on my back. I could afford to find some of it funny. But it’s not funny that he’s inciting violence. It’s not funny that he’s attacking and insulting minorities. It’s not funny that he’s emboldening the white supremacists and the Stormfronters and the half of freepers that enjoy him. It’s not funny that he is hurting real people with his rhetoric of hate. > > Yes, his rise probably helps the Democratic party, but it does not help the country, or the world. That’s more important than my party of choice. That’s more important than winning an election, even if the election is pretty important. Being civilized, humane, welcoming, open, and ethical as a people and as a country is more important. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/68 "2016-03-14T21:27:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do you believe it would make him the best candidate for president? Please provide reasoning. Well, that’s just it, Quick. When the hate mail with the return envelopes went around, it didn’t ask for Reason. It asked for Money. Trump is what they Bought. He may be 250 lbs of dog-crap in a size 50 suit with asbestos stuck to the top, but he’s Paid For. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/69 "2016-03-14T21:33:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t know about “most,” but you’re absolutely right: many criticisms of Trump on this board are factually flawed or technically true but deceptive. And I have spoken many times about how distressing it is, on a board supposedly devoted to fighting ignorance, to find that any correction of facts is taken to be overall support for the accused. If you accuse Idi Amin of being an arsonist, my pointing out that there’s no evidence of arson in his past does not mean I support Idi Amin. It is the default, however, if you don’t say you don’t support them. Especially when, after people are clearly making that assumption, you don’t clarify. Or if you seem to be vehement in your defense instead of apologizing for having to defend someone so vile. I also think it’s pointless to expect perfect rationality when you’re in a forum specifically for high tempers. Anger clouds judgment. It changes the goal from being accurate to being right. And while you do acquiesce more than most, you aren’t immune to it either. I’ve seen you focus on minor details to disprove things, and ignoring the bigger picture. I had a therapist once to whom I described this message board. Just from the basic description, he picked out the obvious problem: smarter people aren’t more really more rational. They’re just better at rationalizing. Anyways, that’s my take on it. At least, when I’m not pissed off and temporarily hate every rude person arguing against me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/70 "2016-03-14T22:12:28Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > I got it! Trump should pick Palin! They just go together, don’t ya think? Like a horse and shotgun. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/71 "2016-03-14T22:41:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, the motto of the board is about fighting ignorance, and most of the criticisms of Trump on this board are either factually wrong or, in the case where his few corporate bankruptcies are trumpeted but his many more successes are ignored, The problem is that some of his failures border on outright fraud. There is still an ongoing legal battle over Trump U. He also was the public face of a dodgy multi level marketing company called ACN. He now blatantly lies saying he knows nothing about the company, despite the fact that there are dozens of videos of him endorsing their system. At the very least this shows terrible judgement, at worse it shows he’s a sleazy salesman that will put his name on anything for money, no matter how questionable it is. Is that the sort of man you want for President? You have to ask yourself, how can you trust that he really believes anything he is saying, given his track record of saying whatever will earn him a buck? He doesn’t believe all the racist crap he spouts, thats just pandering to the base. He used to be a democrat and believes in single payer health care for fucks sake. Hey hint GOP base, you’re all being played for idiots and you’re buying it! Sources: > **[What the Legal Battle Over Trump University Reveals About Its Founder](https://time.com/4101290/what-the-legal-battle-over-trump-university-reveals-about-its-founder/)** > > Inside the litigation [http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-made-millions-from-multilevel-marketing-firm-1439481128](http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-made-millions-from-multilevel-marketing-firm-1439481128) > **[Trump’s Multi-Level Marketing Telecom Endorsement Is Another Example of His...](https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/03/donald-trump-american-communications-network-multi-level-marketing-boondoggle/)** > > Donald Trump endorsed the multi-level marketing telecommunications firm “American Communications Network” just as the company was failing. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/72 "2016-03-14T23:46:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, the motto of the board is about fighting ignorance, and most of the criticisms of Trump on this board are either factually wrong or, in the case where his few corporate bankruptcies are trumpeted but his many more successes are ignored, slanted so as to create a false impression and thereby increase ignorance as to Trump’s record and degree of success. What are these successes that you feel are being ignored? In particular, I’m interested in cases where he’s had an active, decision-making role, and in which he made money for his partners and investors, not just himself. ---
**Author:** ![Grsz11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grsz11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grsz11)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/73 "2016-03-15T02:16:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, the motto of the board is about fighting ignorance, and most of the criticisms of Trump on this board are either factually wrong or, in the case where his few corporate bankruptcies are trumpeted but his many more successes are ignored, slanted so as to create a false impression and thereby increase ignorance as to Trump’s record and degree of success. > > There’s a phenomenon at work on this board where correction of facts equals support for the accused. I would think that to any thoughtful person this would be a problem. Please feel free to share some of this misconceptions. Some of us still have a primary and would love your input on the value of Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/74 "2016-03-15T03:14:31Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The problem is that some of his failures border on outright fraud. There is still an ongoing legal battle over Trump U. He also was the public face of a dodgy multi level marketing company called ACN. He now blatantly lies saying he knows nothing about the company, despite the fact that there are dozens of videos of him endorsing their system. At the very least this shows terrible judgement, at worse it shows he’s a sleazy salesman that will put his name on anything for money, no matter how questionable it is. Is that the sort of man you want for President? > > You have to ask yourself, how can you trust that he really believes anything he is saying, given his track record of saying whatever will earn him a buck? He doesn’t believe all the racist crap he spouts, thats just pandering to the base. He used to be a democrat and believes in single payer health care for fucks sake. Hey hint GOP base, you’re all being played for idiots and you’re buying it! > > Sources: > [What Donald Trump’s University Reveals About His Nature | TIME](http://time.com/4101290/what-the-legal-battle-over-trump-university-reveals-about-its-founder/) > > [http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-made-millions-from-multilevel-marketing-firm-1439481128](http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-made-millions-from-multilevel-marketing-firm-1439481128) > > [Donald Trump’s “American Communications Network” Multi-Level Marketing Boondoggle | National Review](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432709/donald-trump-american-communications-network-multi-level-marketing-boondoggle) Is there any chance of Trump getting the nomination then facing some sort of charges over Trump University? If he repays all the money - will the case “go away”? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/75 "2016-03-15T03:32:21Z")
Right wing media is falling apart when the reasonable Republicans (that still exist) have to deal with Trump. Editor-at-large Ben Shapiro, national security reporter Jordan Schachtel and Jarrett Stepman, an editor resign from because they are upset that Breitbart News is not supporting Michelle Fields after she alleged that Donald Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, grabbed her arm and pulled her away bruising her as she tried to ask the Republican presidential candidate a question last week. > **[Two More Breitbart Staffers Resign Over Site’s ‘Propaganda’ For Trump](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/breitbart-resign-trump-propaganda)** > > Two more Breitbart News staffers resigned on Monday, citing concerns over the conservative news website's approach to covering Donald Trump and the outlet's "integrity." This is notorious for 2 reasons, it shows how Trump is even dividing the right wing press and also shows how the right wing media is going to run over the reporters and news people that still do manage to think independently. Still one has to mention this: > [@](#): > > “The company no longer resembles the ideals that inspired me to start writing for them three years ago. Some of us have been fighting behind the scenes against the party-line Trump propaganda for some time, but without any success, unfortunately,” Jordan Schachtel, a national security correspondent, wrote in a statement to Politico. > > “Breitbart News is no longer a journalistic enterprise, but instead, in my opinion, something an unaffiliated media Super PAC for the trump campaign. I signed my contract to work as a journalist, not as a member of the Donald J. Trump for President media network,” You guys just figure it out until now? :smack: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/76 "2016-03-15T04:13:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I believe Qin, before he was suspended, was quite the Trump! supporter. Yeah, but little Quinchy just has a thing for burly blonde demagogues. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/77 "2016-03-15T05:01:20Z")
As has been noted, Trump has few discoverable lifelong convictions, other than a belief in his own superiority. But he has the successful capitalist’s/demagogue’s luck with timing: he managed to identify a mob and jumped out in front of it at just the right moment for everyone (including the mob itself) to mistake him for its leader. He gets the mob to accept him by saying the things they already believe, promising them the things they already demand, and telling them to do what their worst impulses are already compelling them to do. He is a leader in exactly zero senses of the word: he hasn’t the intellect, force of character, or moral suasion to direct, curb, or inspire his core supporters to do anything, or introduce them to a new idea. He can only go where they are going, or be left behind or trampled. So electing Trump is consenting to be governed by the worst of his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/78 "2016-03-15T08:53:42Z")
He reminds me of a man I met on a temporary project, our supervisor, had a hat that read “I am their Leader. Where are they?” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/79 "2016-03-15T11:42:57Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Oompa-Americans, if you don’t mind. \*Oompa-Loompa doompity doo I’ve got a pretty puzzle for you. Oompa-Loompa doompity dee If you are wise you’ll listen to me. Which candidate is a fatuous tool? A misogynistic, xenophobic fool? Half of the wits of our friend Forrest Gump? Have a cigar if you – guessed – Trump! (that was way too obvious) Oompa-Loompa doompity dote If you don’t get off your ass and vote Trump could be President of you, But the Rest of us Will be Stuck with him too! (:eek: What will we do? :eek: )\* ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959/80 "2016-03-15T12:40:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, the motto of the board is about fighting ignorance, and most of the criticisms of Trump on this board are either factually wrong or, in the case where his few corporate bankruptcies are trumpeted but his many more successes are ignored, slanted so as to create a false impression and thereby increase ignorance as to Trump’s record and degree of success. > > There’s a phenomenon at work on this board where correction of facts equals support for the accused. I would think that to any thoughtful person this would be a problem. [Well, it’s not surprising why you’re a Trump supporter](http://www.spudart.org/blog/the-truth-behind-chicagos-trump-tower/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pit-thread/748959.md?page=5)