# Trump, potential incarceration, and Secret Service protection **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 19, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506 "2024-04-19T16:05:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/201 "2024-06-06T19:24:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > > > IMO, whatever Justice Merchan does from this point, if Trump wins re-election Seal Team 6 will visit Justice Merchan on January 21, 2025. > > Illegal order. We know Trump would have no qualms about giving the order. The question is who stands up and says no. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/202 "2024-06-06T19:36:12Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Just the original first appeal. That should be heard before the end of the year. And it is normal, but there are qualifiers, and if trump violates them, all bets are off. > > I would be very surprised if the appeal was concluded by the end of the year. Sentencing is not until July. Then he gets 30 days to file the Notice, then they set a briefing schedule. Then they set a date for oral argument. Then they spend months and months writing the opinion. I’ve seen anywhere from 30 days to 12 months for an opinion to come out after oral argument. Typically, in Washington, it’s around 2 to 6 months (after oral argument). The whole process is usually 14 to 18 months, but can be shorter or longer. > > Maybe the NY Appellate Division is faster. I don’t know. But is an appeal automatically granted? Don’t there have to be some grounds, and doesn’t someone have to rule that those grounds have enough merit for briefings, opinions, etc.? And is it normal for a convicted felon to be free, with no restrictions whatsoever, whille their appeal is processed? IANAL, obviously, but ISTM that if this is the process, no one would ever end up in prison without a couple of years to screw around after their verdict. If at all. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/203 "2024-06-06T19:41:03Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > But is an appeal automatically granted? Don’t there have to be some grounds, and doesn’t someone have to rule that those grounds have enough merit for briefings, opinions, etc.? Generally, every defendant has a right to one level of appeal. They could rule based on the briefs that they don’t need oral argument. (it’s rare where I practice, but a possibility. Not sure about New York State). But, they will be briefing, and a decision on the merits. And probably oral argument. (given the high profile defendant, if nothing else). > [@Akaj](#): > > And is it normal for a convicted felon to be free, with no restrictions whatsoever, whille their appeal is processed? Not with no restrictions. Most often, the felon begins serving their sentence soon after the sentence is imposed (of course, many normal defendants have been in custody since they were charged). If they are allowed to remain free pending appeal (likely in this case) there will be some restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/204 "2024-06-06T19:44:44Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Not with no restrictions. Most often, the felon begins serving their sentence soon after the sentence is imposed (of course, many normal defendants have been in custody since they were charged). If they are allowed to remain free pending appeal (likely in this case) there will be some restrictions. In NY, white collar criminals or non violent ones can often stay out on bail- with conditions- until the first appeal. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/205 "2024-06-06T19:57:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Remember, this wasn’t a trial to interfere with a campaign. It’s a campaign to interfere with a trial. If Merchan lets him walk free in a situation where anyone else would be behind bars, that would be interfering with the election. Perfectly said. And it’s a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/206 "2024-06-06T20:10:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In NY, white collar criminals or non violent ones can often stay out on bail- with conditions- until the first appeal. When. They. _Cooperate_. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/207 "2024-06-06T21:18:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In NY, white collar criminals or non violent ones can often stay out on bail- with conditions- until the first appeal. Cite? Convicted felons almost _never_ get to delay their sentence pending an appeal. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/208 "2024-06-06T23:32:18Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Cite? > > Convicted felons almost _never_ get to delay their sentence pending an appeal. Have you not been reading? See post 197 and others posted by others. NY is unusual in this. [https://www.axios.com/2024/05/31/trump-appeal-guilty-verdict-arguments](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/31/trump-appeal-guilty-verdict-arguments) **The big picture:** The appeal process will take several months, making it very unlikely to conclude before November. - _That could actually be good news for Trump. He’d likely remain free on bail in the meantime even if Merchan sentences him to prison. Some legal analysts believe probation is more likely as Trump was convicted of the least serious class of felony under New York law._ This also surprised me. Now, this is only for the original appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/209 "2024-06-06T23:46:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Some legal analysts believe probation is more likely as Trump was convicted of the least serious class of felony under New York law. The problem with this is obvious. These “legal analysts” don’t have a crystal ball, and may, in fact, be talking out their ass. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/210 "2024-06-06T23:50:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He’d likely remain free on bail in the meantime even if Merchan sentences him to prison. That’s the sum total of any analysis in your cite of the issue of “remaining free pending appeal”. Do you have something that provides some substantive reason for this statement? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/211 "2024-06-07T00:01:26Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > The problem with this is obvious. These “legal analysts” don’t have a crystal ball, and may, in fact, be talking out their ass. No, not talking out their ass- but they could be wrong of course. Even the best informed expert opinion can be wrong. > [@Moriarty](#): > > Do you have something that provides some substantive reason for this statement? It has been posted here on the SDMB many times- but _A judge who is otherwise authorized pursuant to section 460.50 or section 460.60 to issue an order of recognizance or bail pending the determination of an appeal, may do so unless the defendant received a class A felony sentence or a sentence for any class B or class C felony offense defined in article one hundred …_ > **[Section 530.50 - Order of recognizance or bail; during pendency of appeal,...](https://casetext.com/statute/consolidated-laws-of-new-york/chapter-criminal-procedure/part-3-special-proceedings-and-miscellaneous-procedures/title-p-procedures-for-securing-attendance-at-criminal-actions-and-proceedings-of-defendants-and-witnesses-under-control-of-court-recognizance-bail/article-530-orders-of-recognizance-or-bail-with-respect-to-defendants-in-criminal-actions-and-proceedings-when-and-by-what-courts-authorized/section-53050-order-of-recognizance-or-bail-during-pendency-of-appeal#:~:text=A%20judge%20who%20is%20otherwise,defined%20in%20article%20one%20hundred)** > > Read Section 530.50 - Order of recognizance or bail; during pendency of appeal, N.Y. Crim. Proc. Law § 530.50, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database [https://georgiarecorder.com/2024/06/01/an-angry-trump-pledges-to-appeal-this-scam-conviction-as-republicans-vow-resistance/#:~:text=Trump%20could%20remain%20free%20on,to%20the%20state’s%20highest%20court](https://georgiarecorder.com/2024/06/01/an-angry-trump-pledges-to-appeal-this-scam-conviction-as-republicans-vow-resistance/#:~:text=Trump%20could%20remain%20free%20on,to%20the%20state's%20highest%20court). _Trump could remain free on bail conditions set by the court, or no bail conditions, subject to a decision by the appeals court and potentially any other review if an appeals judge sends the case to the state’s highest court._ > **[Trump Conviction Puts Huge Decisions in Judge Merchan's Hands](https://time.com/6982979/trump-conviction-judge-jail/)** > > Here’s are all the decisions Judge Juan Merchan faces now that the jury has found Donald Trump guilty, including whether he goes to prison and when. _“Most white collar cases get bail pending appeal. That’s just a fact,” says Diana Florence, a former long-time prosecutor in the Manhattan district attorney’s office._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/212 "2024-06-07T00:02:58Z")
[https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-is-convicted-felon-now-what-2024-05-30/](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-is-convicted-felon-now-what-2024-05-30/) T_hat is unlikely._ _The maximum sentence for Trump’s crime of falsifying business records is 1-1/3 to four years in prison._ _It is rare for people with no criminal history who are convicted only of falsification of business records to be sentenced to prison in New York. Punishments such as fines or probation are more common… If punished beyond a fine, Trump could be placed under home confinement or subject to a curfew rather than imprisoned._ _As a former president, he has a lifetime Secret Service detail, and the logistics of keeping him safe behind bars could be complicated._ _The enforcement of any sentence could be delayed while Trump appeals his conviction._ **the logistics of keeping him safe behind bars could be complicated.** ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/213 "2024-06-07T00:04:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > As a former president, he has a lifetime Secret Service detail, and the logistics of keeping him safe behind bars could be complicated. That’s just some random reporter’s opinion. And sure, it could be complicated but I doubt that’s a reason not to do it. (there are reasons not to do it, but complicated logistics isn’t one of them) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/214 "2024-06-07T00:06:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It is rare for people with no criminal history who are convicted only of falsification of business records to be sentenced to prison in New York. It is equally rare for white collar criminals to act like total jackasses in court, and violate court orders repeatedly outside of court. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/215 "2024-06-07T00:07:15Z")
And probably relatively rare not to eventually plead guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/216 "2024-06-07T00:09:08Z")
If it were absolutely imperative that I go to prison for white collar crime, I would have done exactly what Trump did. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/217 "2024-06-07T00:48:18Z")
So how long will it be before the Qanon folks start insisting that Trump did all of that as a plan to infiltrate the US prison system and thus reveal the secrets that Biden and the rest of the Deep State are hiding behind bars? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/218 "2024-06-07T01:23:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > the logistics of keeping him safe behind bars could be complicated. You’ve quoted a great many people saying this. Have you noticed yet that not one of those people has said what any of the complications are? Of course it’s complicated. Protecting someone is always complicated. The person you’re protecting being in a highly-secured building, isolated from almost all other people, makes it less complicated, not more. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/219 "2024-06-07T02:22:12Z")
He’s not going into supermax. Any prison time would be spent in a minimum security facility for nonviolent and white collar convictions. He wouldn’t be in gen pop with your average gang bangers and meth heads and neonazi biker drug runners. So envisioning Trump at constant risk of getting shanked, or a riot breaking out to overwhelm the couple of armed escorts is off base. However, it wouldn’t be one of those high end federal prisons, and he might go thru some more general facilities. It’s not impossible someone would wish him harm and take action. And we all know that jails and prisons aren’t entirely safe for criminals incarcerated in them. Then there is the outside risk of a terrorist wanting to strike an ex-pres. There’s also the probably more real risk that some MAGA extremists would take it upon themselves to storm the ~~castle~~ prison. Prisons are built to withstand reasonable attacks from outside to free someone, but not every possibility a large motivated group might devise. None of which are huge hurdles to incarcerating Trump. Yes, some element of a personal detail inside the facility. Probably more easily accomplished by some of the ideas already floated in the thread - from an unused wing of an old jail being decommissioned to a trailer parked in a secured lot within the confines of a military base or on the prison grounds. The security detail would need some special accommodation, but nothing to onerous. Just the ability to control access and some break/rest facility for whoever is on shift but in rotating duty. Their ability to come and go would be under the same conditions as prison guards. Where’s @Little_Nemo when we need him? He used to work for the New York prison system. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506/220 "2024-06-07T03:22:20Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Where’s @Little_Nemo when we need him? He used to work for the New York prison system. Having summoned me, I regret I have to disagree with you. If Trump gets sentenced to prison (which I feel is unlikely) he will almost certainly be sent to the highest security level prison there is. Part of the assessment of where to place an incoming inmate is not only to determine how much potential danger they present to others but also how much potential danger others present to them. So high-profile inmates get placed in maximum security and isolated from other inmates because they’re seen as likely targets. And a former president is about as high profile as you can get. Look at it from the state’s point of view. If they put Trump in a minimum security prison and another inmate gets annoyed at him and decides to punch him in the nose, the front page news will be how New York state failed to protect him by putting him in a place with minimum security. So the state is going to lock him away where no other inmate will ever be near him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-potential-incarceration-and-secret-service-protection/1000506.md?page=12)