# Trump Pressured Georgia Official to ‘Find’ Enough Votes to Overturn Election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 3, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592 "2021-01-03T20:06:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/242 "2021-01-05T03:54:14Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > I am just too effective at debunking liberals. Say, anyone seen my bunk? … > [@agzem](#): > > _ **“the Left as a rule does not want to hear thoughtful disagreement”** _ I’d love to test that… got any thoughtful disagreement? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/243 "2021-01-05T04:28:47Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > What Biden and his AG should do is not involve themselves either way; leave _everything_ in the hands of career DoJ officials or an independent counsel. I’d say- leave _everything_ in the hands of State AGs. etc. Leave federal out of it. The AG of NY already has a stack on indictments ready, let her do her thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/244 "2021-01-05T04:41:27Z")
I don’t know you, and have no idea what you actually are good at, but debunking liberals isn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Aucklander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/da6949/32.png) [@Aucklander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aucklander)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/245 "2021-01-05T04:48:50Z")
I like Bo’s Crazy Election Theory and I would like to subscribe to his newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/246 "2021-01-05T04:49:25Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It only feels like four years ago. Oh, crud. Kind of like the theme of this message board. (mea culpa on Timey Wimey) Somehow I think 4 years from now there’ll still be repercussions from Trump or his followers. But he could still be a 2 time Impeached POTUS. Maybe that could be his consolation prize? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/247 "2021-01-05T04:53:58Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > The implication is that Trump wanted to “invent” or “create” votes that didn’t exist. Choose whatever descriptive word you want but there’s nothing to that claim. > [@Trolls R Us redux \[Now the argument clinic\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/2238): > > you set up a strawman to knock down instead of directly addressing any individual post > [@Trolls R Us redux \[Now the argument clinic\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/2239): > > Yes, what was I thinking?. Clearly no one was alleging that Trump was trying to “ **invent** ” new votes. They were only suggesting that Trump wanted to {quote} **find** {/quote} votes which absolutely not suggesting that Trump wanted to “invent” votes and is completely different. So, @azgem is claiming that Trump, in using the word “find”, was most definitely _ **not** _ implying “invent”. Yet his defense to the charge of strawmanning is that people in this thread who simply used Trump’s own word “find” _ **are** _ obviously thereby implying invent? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/248 "2021-01-05T05:37:53Z")
Trump’s behavior reminds me of some of the patrons of a liquor store I used to work at. Their card would decline and the screen would say “insufficient funds” but they would insist that I try it again. We would only try it again so many times because never once did it go from insufficient funds to sufficient simply because we made the effort of doing it again. So if we are extremely charitable and say that Trump is ham-fistedly asking for another recount because he’s sure there is money in the bank in the form of 12,000 legitimate ballots with his name on them somewhere that someone just forgot about… well, they’ve done three counts by now. How many more times would he like them counted just to make sure? These are Trump Republicans doing the counting and they can’t find missing ballots or any evidence that said ballots were stolen/lost/etc along the way. And they have actually humored Trump as much as they possibly can but now he’s just getting obnoxious about it. When [Dick Cheney tells you to knock it off](https://www.aol.com/cheneys-trump-013953943.html), it’s time to call it quits. Insufficient funds. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/249 "2021-01-05T06:14:26Z")
🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂 Oh, I believe that Trump really believes that it was OK for him to pressure the officials to “find” 12,780 votes because he really believes that hundreds of thousands of votes were stolen from him. But so what? I guess he can plead “not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect”, but that doesn’t make it not extortion. So you’re brilliant takedown of the liberals is that since Trump’s insane , he’s not responsible for his actions? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/250 "2021-01-05T06:35:04Z")
I’m sorry, but I just can’t get over the part where Trump insists that nobody would leave Georgia and then move back. I guess he’s not a Gladys Knight fan? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/251 "2021-01-05T06:47:24Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > As the Lead Stories fact check link shows, context is important. Those votes **DO EXIST** and have been counted. Trump is referring to what his lawyers believe are **INVALID votes cast for Biden… not uncounted votes.** Trump’s lawyers do not, in fact, believe anything of the kind. However judgmental one might feel about attorneys, they are obligated to observe a code of professional behavior in the courtroom. Their assertions before a judge are subject to standards of objective reality. They are free to make claims about their case, but they must honestly believe these claims and they must be able to show a basis for making them. If they make assertions that are unfounded in either known or discoverable fact, they put themselves at risk of professional sanction, including fines, loss of their legal license, and imprisonment for contempt. There is a huge gap between what Trump’s attorneys say when they’re in front of a TV camera or a journalist’s microphone, and what they say when they’re in front of a judge. The former is theater, for the benefit of the mouth-breathing base, working up the rabble with empty grandstanding. The latter is a more true reflection of their actual provable beliefs. Because, in the courtroom, if they stray from the latter into the realm of the former, they put themselves in jeopardy of being Rule Elevened. If you are arguing that their statements in the former context are an accurate representation of their professional opinion, while disregarding the huge gulf between those statements and their formal claims in the latter context, then your argument is disconnected from any understanding of law, attorney practice, or, indeed, reality. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/252 "2021-01-05T08:08:07Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I’m sorry, but I just can’t get over the part where Trump insists that nobody would leave Georgia and then move back. I guess he’s not a Gladys Knight fan? Or Hoagy Carmichael! [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/F2ZhVSWk9XI/maxresdefault.jpg "Georgia On My Mind") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ZhVSWk9XI) ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/253 "2021-01-05T08:12:32Z")
_ **Moderating** _ Any questions or complaints or what have you about moderation belong in ATMB, NOT Politics and Elections. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/254 "2021-01-05T09:12:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If political capital didn’t exist, we’d have the $2000 stimulus checks. I’m sorry, but I can’t even make enough sense of this to rebut it, because I don’t know what you’re trying to say. > [@BigT](#): > > But even if they do have the capital to pull it off, you didn’t refute the rest of my post. Impeachment is not required by the Constitution, and it is not the only form of consequences Trump can face. And your analogy about prosecutors actually means they shouldn’t impeach, as a prosecutor won’t prosecute if they can’t get a conviction. The laws and the Constitution rarely force people to _do_ shit. They mostly tell you what certain actors _can’t_ do. But you’re saying here that because one party believes its President can do no wrong, the other party shouldn’t do shit about it when that President blatantly commits exactly the sorts of actions that impeachment is clearly the appropriate remedy for under the Constitution. And the Senate gets to make the choice for both houses of Congress, which also seems rather bizarre. And I understand that prosecutors won’t bring a case if they can’t get a conviction in a fair trial. But if they have an open-and-shut case, are they supposed to stand down if they know the jury is going to vote to acquit anyway? Seems again like that gives a veto to bad people, not only on the outcome, but on the entire process. . > [@BigT](#): > > As for Nixon: he may have said it, but who thinks he didn’t do anything wrong? Nowadays, who knows? But during the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, plenty of people thought the worst he did was those expletives that were deleted, and that he was forced out by a partisan railroading. I ran into people like that all the fucking time back then. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/255 "2021-01-05T09:19:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > As for Nixon: he may have said it, but who thinks he didn’t do anything wrong? One of the guys Loser Donald just pardoned has a tattoo of Nixon on his back. I’ll give you two guesses what he thinks about the guy. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/256 "2021-01-05T09:26:32Z")
I don’t believe that song specifically mentions moving back to Georgia after leaving. However Colbert had an entire list tonight of singers who might have changed their addresses to other states then needed to reregister to vote in GA, including Jim Croce (Walking Back to Georgia) and Charlie Daniels (The Devil Comes Back to Georgia). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/257 "2021-01-05T09:33:35Z")
I should note that there is one special circumstance with Nixon that wouldn’t apply now, because things are the way they are: if Nixon hadn’t resigned, the Judiciary Committee was ready to change its vote to 38-0 on the obstruction of justice article, and while the votes of the full House and Senate probably wouldn’t have been unanimous, they’d have been very close to it. Maybe some people would still have claimed it was a partisan railroading, but those votes would have proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/258 "2021-01-05T09:45:15Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > The Devil Comes Back to Georgia TIL that Charlie Daniels made a lazy-ass sequel to the original song. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/259 "2021-01-05T10:28:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Jungian\_Camisole1](#): > > > > Proud Boys descending on DC on the 20th, > > Proud boy leader has just been arrested, and may face a weapons charge. So possibly no carousing around DC for him in the next while. Problem is, he’s not the only one out there. > [@agzem](#): > > Two warnings for the same thing? Well, yeah, if you keep doing something after the first warning you get another one… > [@agzem](#): > > Listen, I understand that cancel culture is coming for me on this site. No. It’s just that you’re wrong. Your facts are wrong. Your man Trump lost the election and apparently you’re having just as much trouble accepting that fact as Trump is. You’ve debunked nothing, just repeated lies and falsehoods that we know are untrue. > [@DWMarch](#): > > When [Dick Cheney tells you to knock it off](https://www.aol.com/cheneys-trump-013953943.html), it’s time to call it quits. Insufficient funds. Yeah, no one is saying Darth Cheney is a nice guy but honestly, if Darth Vader says you’re doing a bad thing _you’re doing a bad thing_. Trump lost. End of story. Recounting again is not going to change that. Hell, even discrediting the Georgia election results won’t change that, threatening the Georgia elected officials is just spite and anger, the search for a scapegoat because just as Trump can’t cope with being a loser he can’t cope with being held responsible or suffering the consequences of his actions. Other than the Presidential race, the Republicans actually did pretty good in Georgia. That means _Republican voters_ must have split their ticket, voting mostly Republican for officials AND voting for Biden as President. The vote wasn’t a rejection of the Republican party, it was a rejection of Trump. > [@Cervaise](#): > > Trump’s lawyers do not, in fact, believe anything of the kind. > > However judgmental one might feel about attorneys, they are obligated to observe a code of professional behavior in the courtroom. Their assertions before a judge are subject to standards of objective reality. They are free to make claims about their case, but they must honestly believe these claims and they must be able to show a basis for making them. If they make assertions that are unfounded in either known or discoverable fact, they put themselves at risk of professional sanction, including fines, loss of their legal license, and imprisonment for contempt. I disagree with this statement. We have the official records from court cases where Trump lawyers, when called to provide evidence, provided none. We have at least one instance where, after insisting election monitors weren’t allowed in the vote counting room the lawyer had to admit the number of monitors were greater than zero. Absolutely at least some of the Trump lawyers know the truth, which is also why a lot of the legal rats have jumped ship. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/260 "2021-01-05T10:49:22Z")
[Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)[Charter Member](https://boards.straightdope.com/g/Charter_Member) [Jan 4](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/80) > I’ve long thought that his unscripted speech patterns may be a sign of Alzheimer’s, having had family members go through it. \< Yup. Or senile dementia of some kind, it’s not just Alzheimers. A helpful medical professional pointed out that the elderly tend to resort to looping, repeating things over and over. It explained a lot of what we were having to deal with. Frankly, Trump is up there with Woodrow Wilson for staying in office while mentally incompetent. I can’t wait to see what happens in a little over two weeks from now. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592/261 "2021-01-05T10:58:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Absolutely at least some of the Trump lawyers know the truth, which is also why a lot of the legal rats have jumped ship. I think you may have misread my paragraph. That’s exactly what I’m saying. The Trump lawyers make arguments in public, and then they make totally different arguments in the courtroom, because they know their public arguments are bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pressured-georgia-official-to-find-enough-votes-to-overturn-election/929592.md?page=14)