# Trump/Putin **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 24, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455 "2025-04-24T19:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/1 "2025-04-24T19:53:43Z")
If Trump were to give Putin an ultimatum, such as if you don’t leave Ukraine we will remove you. I would imagine Putin threaten a nuclear strike. If Trump were to call his bluff would insiders remove Putin? Very dangerous game but most insider’s view Putin as a rational player. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/2 "2025-04-24T19:56:16Z")
How, exactly, would trump call his bluff? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/3 "2025-04-24T20:19:35Z")
If Trump were to give Putin an ultimatum, such as “if you don’t leave Ukraine we will remove you,” I would imagine that Putin would ignore it as empty bluster aimed at a domestic audience. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/4 "2025-04-24T20:21:18Z")
Not going to happen. Trump doesn’t want the film of him getting a Golden Shower released (or whatever else Putin has on him). He would rather the world blew up. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/5 "2025-04-24T20:24:41Z")
The closest real-life comparison to the OP’s scenario was the Cuban Missile Crisis. But Kennedy’s ultimatum was “remove your missiles or we’ll destroy them,” not “remove your missiles or we’ll remove Kruschev.” And the first part of the showdown was a showdown between ships in international waters, not with a hit squad in Moscow or a nuclear weapon dropped on Kharkiv. And where exactly would Putin order a strike? On Ukraine? Washington? Over a deserted island in the Arctic Ocean? Anywhere, anytime, with no warning? Maybe Putin’s supporters wouldn’t object to one of those scenarios, but would to another. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/6 "2025-04-24T20:24:52Z")
I imagine Trump would have to be extremely specific about what “remove” means. If it means assassination, then Putin has literally nothing to lose from threatening nuclear war. You need to give your opponent something to lose, in order for them to not escalate. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/7 "2025-04-24T20:29:54Z")
I interpreted the hypothetical to mean “we’ll remove you from Ukraine” as opposed to “we’ll remove you from being the president of Russia”. My guess is the United States military is more than capable of doing the former. It would probably take a few months at most. I think the whole point is moot, however, considering that Trump would never actually do such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/8 "2025-04-24T20:32:22Z")
OK. Well, in that case, I’d expect Putin to bluster as much as he can, nuclear-ly, and maybe even do a detonation of a nuke over some place harmless like the Black Sea to show seriousness. But ultimately, the USA would eject Russian forces from Ukraine like Desert Storm, It wouldn’t take long or be hard. And Putin wouldn’t nuke the American forces, as long as they strike strictly within Ukrainian borders. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/9 "2025-04-24T20:37:50Z")
As usual, I did not phrase it correctly. I did not mean remove Putin, I meant kick him out of Ukraine ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/10 "2025-04-24T20:40:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > OK. Well, in that case, I’d expect Putin to bluster as much as he can, nuclear-ly, and maybe even do a detonation of a nuke over some place harmless like the Black Sea to show seriousness. But ultimately, the USA would eject Russian forces from Ukraine like Desert Storm, It wouldn’t take long or be hard. And Putin wouldn’t nuke the American forces, as long as they strike strictly within Ukrainian borders. This mirrors my thoughts on this. When I put myself in the position of a leader and face myself with this decision that 1% that i might get it wrong scares the shit out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/11 "2025-04-24T20:47:47Z")
Trump works for Putin, so that’ll never happen. Trump recently pushed a ‘deal’ giving Puting everything he wants. Total control over crimea, control over conquered territories, Ukraine doesn’t join NATO, the US lifts sanctions on Russia, etc and Putin still rejected it. I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump is going to start offering even more goodies to Putin to come to the table. Its probably a secret backdoor agreement where Trump will offer Putin everything so Putin can end the war, rebuild for the next war, and save face at home. I’m guessing it’ll go like this. Trump offers Putin everything he wants Putin rejects it and attacks Ukraine Trump offers even more goodies to Putin to get him to end the war Putin rejects it and attacks Ukraine wash/rinse/repeat until Trump has basically given Putin the keys to the universe, and Putin agrees so he can end the war, rebuild the Russian military and save face at home talking about all the goodies Trump gave him to get him to end the war. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/12 "2025-04-24T20:52:17Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Its probably a secret backdoor agreement where Trump will offer Putin everything so Putin can end the war, rebuild for the next war, and save face at home. I don’t believe so, I see their relationship based on Trumps desire to have a dialogue being stronger than Putin’s. Trump sees Putin as a powerful man and that is extremely attractive to a Narc on steroids. Trumps sees himself as the main power on earth and Rejection by Putin is a blow to his ego. That has it’s limits, We just don’t know what they are but I think they are getting close to that. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/13 "2025-04-24T20:53:05Z")
OK, but that’s fighting the hypothetical. The OP’s question could apply to Biden or Harris (if president) just as much as Trump. The OP is simply asking how Putin would react if an American president said he was going to forcibly eject Russian forces out of Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/14 "2025-04-24T20:53:17Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Not going to happen. Trump doesn’t want the film of him getting a Golden Shower released (or whatever else Putin has on him). He would rather the world blew up. Michael Cohen was Trump’s ex-lawyer and fixer who knew him intimately. In Michael Cohen’s book disloyal he talked about how much Trump admired and respected Putin. He said a big part of it was that Putin used his power over the government to get rich. Cohen said that Trump would sometimes say ‘Putin is the world’s first trillionaire’ (Supposedly Putin is worth 200-300 billion). I’m sure Putin has blackmail info on Krasnov he has built up over the decades. But also, Trump genuinely admires Putin because of how rich he is. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/15 "2025-04-24T20:56:23Z")
At the moment, Trump’s position seems to be to give Russia the territory that it has taken. To my Republican eye, that’s the position of an appeaser. You pay off bad people and hope that they are satisfied and won’t come back to ask for more. Why the Republican party bought the guy, I can’t personally identify as he seems to have all the opposite positions of everything that Republicans voted for from 1970 to 2012. Short of being reborn as a law and order hardliner and military hawk, I’m not seeing how we get to the OP hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/16 "2025-04-24T20:58:50Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > OK, but that’s fighting the hypothetical. The OP’s question could apply to Biden or Harris (if president) just as much as Trump. The OP is simply asking how Putin would react if an American president said he was going to forcibly eject Russian forces out of Ukraine. It costs roughly $10 million a year to maintain a nuclear weapon. Russia has a lot of nukes, but how many of them actually work? how many nukes that are on functioning ICBMs does Russia have? Russia’s military budget was under $10 billion a year for many years after the collapse of the USSR. > **[Russia Military Spending/Defense Budget 1992-2025 | MacroTrends](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/rus/russia/military-spending-defense-budget)** > > Military expenditures data from SIPRI are derived from the NATO definition, which includes all current and capital expenditures on the armed forces, including peacekeeping forces; defense ministries and other government agencies engaged in defense... Russia has been on a military buildup, but how well did they maintain all those nuclear weapons that cost 10 million each a year, especially considering how much corruption there is in the russian military? Lots of equipment in the Ukranian war was rusted out and poorly maintained. Military officers would take money to buy good tires for Russian military equipment, pocket the money, then buy cheap chinese tires that failed in Ukraine for example. Anyway, how would Putin react if a US president said they’d force him out? I have no idea. I’m guessing they kept a few nuclear weapons with working ICBMs upkept, but it isn’t anywhere near the 4300 they advertise. I have no idea how Putin would react if the US threatened to kick him out of Ukraine. I don’t think it would lead to all out war, but I could see Russia declaring cyberwar on the US ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/17 "2025-04-24T21:07:19Z")
The other element to consider is that such a US military operation wouldn’t happen overnight. Presumably it would be something like, “All Russian forces must withdraw from Ukraine by 12:00 midnight local time June 30, 2025”, similar to the ultimatum given to Saddam about Kuwait prior to Desert Storm. So that would give Putin’s advisors plenty of time to talk to Putin about what to do. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/18 "2025-04-24T21:29:42Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I don’t think it would lead to all out war, but I could see Russia declaring cyberwar on the US To me, that would just equate to admitting openly what they’ve been doing for years already. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/19 "2025-04-25T00:33:47Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > If Trump were to give Putin an ultimatum, such as if you don’t leave Ukraine we will remove you. I would imagine Putin threaten a nuclear strike. If Trump were to call his bluff would insiders remove Putin? Very dangerous game but most insider’s view Putin as a rational player. I hope this isn’t fighting the hypothetical, but what you describe is not calling Putin’s bluff. If Trump, or any president, threatened force against Russian forces in Ukraine, that is not calling a bluff. If anything, Trump is the one who may be bluffing in your scenario. Trump threatens to attack if the Russian forces don’t withdraw, the Russian Army continues to press their attack, and then it’s up to Trump whether to follow through on his ultimatum. Trump’s bluff has been called. Looked at in that light, Putin’s decision when faced with such a threat is the same faced by any poker player. Will Trump back up his threat, or not? ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455/20 "2025-04-25T01:58:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The OP’s question could apply to Biden or Harris (if president) just as much as Trump. The OP is simply asking how Putin would react if an American president said he was going to forcibly eject Russian forces out of Ukraine. Biden or Harris saying such a thing would be a different question, though. If we are considering how Putin would react, it’s hugely relevant that it’s _Trump_ making the threat. We’re told not to fight the hypothetical, so I will refrain from pointing out that Trump would never make this threat to a man on whom he has such a massive crush. If he were to do so, Putin would correctly see it as empty bluster. Trump has a long record of blustering and backing down, and it is inconceivable that Trump would commit US troops to war to defend Ukraine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-putin/1017455.md?page=2)