# Trump’s new low (re: backstabbing NATO) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 12, 2024, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485 "2024-02-12T18:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/21 "2024-02-12T23:11:27Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > … if you’d told me 30 or 40 years ago that the Republican party was going to be the party of the pro-Russian lunatic fringe I’d have laughed in your face. The weird part is, all of the frothers I know still hold Reagan, and his era, up as a thing to get back to. He hated Russia just as much anyone. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/22 "2024-02-12T23:12:40Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It takes a 2/3 majority in the Senate plus a majority in the House to pass a new law overriding the old one. I assume you’re talking about the filibuster here, in which case it’s a 60% majority in the Senate rather than 2/3rds? > [@BigT](#): > > Plus, well, not even Republicans actually want to withdraw from NATO. The MAGA faction might, but you’d need the full party to pull off those shenanigans. A lot would depend on exactly what steps the non-MAGA faction would need to take to do such a thing. If they just have to block the the actions of the MAGA faction, that might be possible. If they have to take positive steps to team up with the Democrats to pursue some action against the MAGA faction, then we are probably all screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/23 "2024-02-12T23:18:41Z")
If the requirement is for 2% of gdp be spent on defense, how many of them have to spend most all of it outside their borders? Compared to how much of the USA’s 3.4% that all goes to US companies? They could just be like Trump himself and use creative accounting. Denmark spends 2% on its army. It’s soldiers have the best cheese rations on earth. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/24 "2024-02-12T23:39:27Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > They could just be like Trump himself and use creative accounting. The UK have been doing that for years: > **[Nato spending target 'met by MoD accounting changes'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36094112.amp)** > > The government faces claims it has only met the 2% Nato target on defence spending by including items such as intelligence gathering and war pensions. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/25 "2024-02-12T23:41:04Z")
If you fall behind in your property taxes, should the local police and fire departments loot your home and attack your family?? Donald Trump seems to think so. There’s nothing Trump (and his MAGA base) likes more than the thought of the strong inflicting sadistic and gratuitous harm on the weak. His niece, Mary, was right about his innumerable pathologies. If anything, she radically understated the case. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/26 "2024-02-13T01:12:26Z")
I can see the participants in the thread already know this, but what is especially infuriating is how Trump frames this, implying they owe us money. The MAGA idiots suck it up. “Why should we support NATO when they don’t even pay us what we’re due?” These same dopes would freak if anyone suggested we spend less on defense. Sure, the U.S. should pressure NATO allies to increase their defense spending. All administrations do. But it’s not taking money out of our pockets if they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/27 "2024-02-13T01:31:28Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > There was a story last week of a kid who killed his dad because his dad got vaccinated. Well, a 44-year-old kid, but still awful. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/28 "2024-02-13T02:13:58Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I can see the participants in the thread already know this, but what is especially infuriating is how Trump frames this, implying they owe us money. The MAGA idiots suck it up. “Why should we support NATO when they don’t even pay us what we’re due?” In fairness, this is an old isolationist falsehood going back at least half of a century, that NATO/South Korea/Japan/any other nation the US has a defensive alliance with isn’t pulling its weight and is making the American taxpayer foot the bill for their defense. Pat Buchannon loved peddling this idea, along with his batshit insane ideas that the British, Churchill in particular, were to blame for WWII, not Hitler. The libertarian party was using the false idea that these countries were making the US pay for their defense as a reason for their isolationist stance back in the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/29 "2024-02-13T02:33:47Z")
Churchill or Chamberlain? I’ve seen the Chamberlain stuff and partially agree, but Churchill? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/30 "2024-02-13T02:40:32Z")
Ah, I see you only _thought_ you knew how batshit insane Pat Buchanon is. > **[Amazon.com: Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its...](https://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Hitler-Unnecessary-War-Britain/dp/0307405168)** > > Amazon.com: Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World: 9780307405166: Buchanan, Patrick J.: Books > In this monumental and provocative history, Patrick Buchanan makes the case that, if not for the blunders of British statesmen– Winston Churchill first among them–the horrors of two world wars and the Holocaust might have been avoided and the British Empire might never have collapsed into ruins. Half a century of murderous oppression of scores of millions under the iron boot of Communist tyranny might never have happened, and Europe’s central role in world affairs might have been sustained for many generations. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/31 "2024-02-13T02:50:43Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Ah, I see you only _thought_ you knew how batshit insane Pat Buchanon is I just read the complete description in Amazon. It would appear that, in addition to, or as a symptom of, his batshit insanity, his understanding of how western thought has progressed is non-existent; one of the examples listed was the “vengeful Treaty of Versailles that mutilated Germany, leaving her bitter, betrayed, and receptive to the appeal of Adolf Hitler”. Except that, if he had read any other histories (and/or retained them) he would have known that not everything was Churchill’s doing. And, at that time, vengeful punishment was an acceptable option that would not be repeated after WW II. ---
**Author:** ![Ulysses](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulysses/32/16083_2.png) [@Ulysses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulysses)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/32 "2024-02-13T02:51:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Moderating] > I’ve edited the title to make it clear exactly which new low is being referred to. > [/Moderating] The necessity of this clarification made me lol. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/33 "2024-02-13T03:06:08Z")
Well, you know, bringing it full circle to the OP, it puts Buchanan in the good company of TFG’s buddy Putin, who just told Tucker Carlson WWII was Poland’s fault for making Hitler start the war. > **[Poland angrily responds to Putin's claims about Hitler and World War II](https://www.newsweek.com/poland-angrily-responds-putins-claims-about-hitler-world-war-ii-1868707)** > > Putin defended Nazi leader Adolf Hitler's 1939 decision to invade Poland during his recent interview with Tucker Carlson. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/34 "2024-02-13T03:20:57Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > told Tucker Carlson WWII was Poland’s fault for making Hitler start the war OMFG, I just read the first few paragraphs of the article. The world is drifting in a really frightening direction. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/35 "2024-02-13T03:21:40Z")
I object to putting a label like “isolationist” on Trump’s disparagement of NATO allies. It makes it sound like it’s part of some consistent foreign policy, albeit a misguided one. Trump doesn’t have a foreign policy any more than my cat does, and I don’t even **have** a cat. He’s just an unhinged lunatic whose pie-hole utters whatever he happens to think his idiot acolytes will applaud. But the fact remains that an unhinged lunatic as President of the US poses a very serious threat to the world order. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/36 "2024-02-13T04:30:33Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I object to putting a label like “isolationist” on Trump’s disparagement of NATO allies. It makes it sound like it’s part of some consistent foreign policy, albeit a misguided one. It’d be hard to call someone who thought buying Greenland (hey, it’s bigger than all of those shithole countries in Africa combined, just look at the Mercator map!) would be a good idea that Denmark would be up for, or that cozying up to dictators like Putin and Kim Jong Un (why, just look at all that beachfront property the DPRK has!) was an even better one isolationist. I didn’t say Trump was isolationist, just that the (erroneous) idea he is peddling about our allies making us pay for their defense is a very old one peddled in isolationist circles, amongst other places. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/37 "2024-02-13T15:30:17Z")
I may be repeating something someone else has already mentioned, but Trump acts like he’s running a protection racket. “Nice country you got there… Sure would hate to see anything happen to it.” He really is a mobster at heart. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/38 "2024-02-13T15:31:43Z")
I agree, but take exception to the use of the word “heart” when referring to trumpy. How about “He really is a mobster deep in his intestines”? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/39 "2024-02-13T15:40:05Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I may be repeating something someone else has already mentioned, but Trump acts like he’s running a protection racket. “Nice country you got there… Sure would hate to see anything happen to it.” He really is a mobster at heart. Trump views himself as the Godfather. It’s why he compares himself to Al Capone and says things like Taylor Swift wouldn’t be “disloyal” to him by endorsing Biden. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/40 "2024-02-13T15:55:32Z")
The thing I especially don’t understand is both my parents are born-and-raised in Poland, hated the USSR and communism, came to America, and somehow now both support Trump. They’re not full-fledged MAGAs, but but that’s who they voted for the last two times, and I just don’t get it. I avoid subjects of politics with him (though discussions don’t really get that heated, except on my end sometimes–I’ve learned to control my outbursts), but I can’t imagine how he could reconcile a president who buddies up with a guy who defends Hitler’s invasion of Poland. For Christ’s sake, one of our regular weekly visitors growing was a woman who was in Birkenau, I believe, and had the number tattoo on her shoulder if there was any doubt. My dad’s also a Vietnam vet. Why did no-one from his veteran friends seem to care when Trump made fun of McCain for being a POW? That was just appalling. What the fuck is wrong with this world? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485.md?page=3)