# Trump’s new low (re: backstabbing NATO) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 12, 2024, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485 "2024-02-12T18:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/41 "2024-02-13T15:59:32Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Why did no-one from his veteran friends seem to care when Trump made fun of McCain for being a POW? That was just appalling. What the fuck is wrong with this world? That absolutely killed me and told me the take-over of the Republican Party by the idiot Right was complete. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/42 "2024-02-13T16:09:14Z")
Just one more aside: It was really strange for me, as I took my dad to a reunion of his old “gun bunnies” (he was in an artillery unit, and that’s what one of the captions of him and his crew said) in Wiliamsburg. This was the first time he had seen his comrades since 1970, I think? This was also right before the election, in the fall of 2016, and every single vet there that I heard talking politics were loudly and proudly for Trump. I’m assuming there was a small, quiet minority for Clinton (I hope so), but I didn’t hear a single word positive about her. It was maddening as I wanted to ask how they reconcile Trump’s McCain comments, but it wasn’t my place to do so, and this was a gift to my dad to see some old friends. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/43 "2024-02-13T16:40:42Z")
Since they’re not MAGAs, you may be able to reach them by calmly asking them questions about how they reconcile their hatred of the USSR and Trump’s support for USSR 2.0, and how your dad can reconcile Trump’s disdain for veterans with his veteran status. Like, don’t lecture them. Don’t tell them they’re wrong or what to believe. Just ask the questions and let them come to conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/44 "2024-02-13T16:44:21Z")
I’ve asked about McCain with my dad, and he simply didn’t have an answer. And I didn’t press. He didn’t seem to care, because abortions=BAD, Clinton=BAD, Democrats=TAXES, Democrats=OPEN BORDERS or something like that. I swear, if I could just change the radio station he listens to from right-wing radio to left-wing radio (which doesn’t really much exist), I wonder if he would even notice and just start spouting what left-wing radio is spewing. As long as it sounds angry enough, he’ll listen. ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/45 "2024-02-13T17:10:31Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I wanted to ask how they reconcile Trump’s McCain comments, Bluster bluster, but he doesn’t mean me/us. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/46 "2024-02-13T17:13:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I wonder if he would even notice and just start spouting what left-wing radio is spewing Not so with my BIL. I ended up alone at his house for a few hours. Where they spew FOX ‘news’ all the time. I changed it to actual news. Right back to FOX BS when he and my SIL got home (from church of all things). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/47 "2024-02-13T17:21:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > They’re not full-fledged MAGAs, but but that’s who they voted for the last two times, and I just don’t get it. In 1968 my grandfather (aged 86) announced that he was voting for George Wallace because, as he put it, “He stands for **real** Americans.” “Poppa,” my father shouted, “YOU’RE AN IMMIGRANT! REAL AMERICANS DIDN’T WANT YOU HERE!” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/48 "2024-02-13T17:25:25Z")
The thing is, they watch normal network news all the time. It’s just talk radio that fills his afternoons, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/49 "2024-02-13T17:27:43Z")
Back to the OP, Congress did pass a bill making it essentially impossible for a president to pull America out of NATO. The problem, though, is that as Commander in Chief, the president doesn’t have to order American forces to go to war. Article 5 becomes meaningless if the president orders US forces to stand down. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/50 "2024-02-13T17:53:37Z")
How is Trump’s statement not a promise to commit treason? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/51 "2024-02-13T17:56:03Z")
Assuming for a moment it is, his core followers don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/52 "2024-02-13T18:02:19Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Just one more aside: It was really strange for me, as I took my dad to a reunion of his old “gun bunnies” (he was in an artillery unit, and that’s what one of the captions of him and his crew said) in Wiliamsburg. This was the first time he had seen his comrades since 1970, I think? I’ve had this discussion with my MAGA supporting mother. My father, her husband, spent the bulk of his military career in Europe working with other NATO countries. I remember distinctly my father going out to play war games with the West German army. Not surpisingly, my mother has always been a “Support the Troops” kind of person. But that changed when she latched on to Trump. She was fine with Trump attacking McCain’s military records and now she’s anti-NATO and pro-Russian. I expect there’s some cognative dissonance among many of these Trump supporters. They don’t see themselves as pro-Russian even if they parrot Russian beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/53 "2024-02-13T18:05:38Z")
Because the US is not in a declared war with anyone currently, including Russia. Treason has a pretty narrow definition in US law. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/54 "2024-02-13T18:12:11Z")
But if Russia were to invade Western Europe and Trump were to allow that to happen, wouldn’t that be “giving aid and comfort to the enemy” and therefore treason? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/55 "2024-02-13T18:16:46Z")
Not unless the US actually went to war against Russia in the process. It doesn’t mean enemies in a general sense, it means enemies in war. That’s why the last time a person was convicted of treason was back in WWII. Sometimes people mistakenly think the Rosenbergs were convicted of treason but that was actually espionage (which funny enough, Trump has already been charged with). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/56 "2024-02-13T18:25:20Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Treason has a pretty narrow definition in US law. Including, but not limited to - “Giving aid and comfort to the enemy” Now, Russia is not our enemy, but I think we could say they are hostile. A fine line. He tried to prevent aid to Ukraine right before that war started. I think I know who put that idea in his head. Also, insurrection of course, and lets not forget extortion of a friendly country. But we have three strikes and your out in some states. Do a dooby in a park all by your self could put you away. Try to overthrow the country is OK though. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/57 "2024-02-13T18:25:23Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > How is Trump’s statement not a promise to commit treason? It’s not treason to betray other countries. It’s stupid, short-sighted, stupid, self-defeating and stupid, but not treason. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/58 "2024-02-13T18:27:27Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Now, Russia is not our enemy, but I think we could say they are hostile. A fine line. He tried to prevent aid to Ukraine right before that war started. I think I know who put that idea in his head. Not where treason law is concerned, it’s not a fine line at all but a chasm. Otherwise you’d have probably seen convictions during the Cold War. I’m not saying it’s not potentially a violation of some law, just not that one in particular. I’m not a lawyer but it’s a pretty easy call. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/59 "2024-02-13T19:08:36Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > How about “He really is a mobster deep in his intestines”? Lower colon. That’s why he gets so much attention to his sphincter muscle from his toadies. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/60 "2024-02-13T19:30:21Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Well, a 44-year-old kid, but still awful. At my age, most people are kids. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485.md?page=4)