# Trump’s new low (re: backstabbing NATO) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 12, 2024, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485 "2024-02-12T18:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/61 "2024-02-13T20:02:22Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Not unless the US actually went to war against Russia And wouldn’t that happen with an attack on NATO? Or am I misunderstanding NATO Treaty Article 5, which says " an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all"? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/62 "2024-02-13T20:06:22Z")
Americans for America! Easy as that! What have other nations ever done for us? /s ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/63 "2024-02-13T20:17:10Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The bizarro Trump version of the Republican Party hurts my brain. > > For what was the pretty pro-Nato party, to accept this is mind boggling. Yep. The old GOP despise the “godless commies”. Now, some of them love Putin. > [@Dissonance](#): > > I’ve said it in other threads, but if you’d told me 30 or 40 years ago that the Republican party was going to be the party of the pro-Russian lunatic fringe I’d have laughed in your face. Yep. But you see, Putin has something on trump. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Churchill or Chamberlain? I’ve seen the Chamberlain stuff and partially agree, but Churchill? Yeah- definitely _some_ of the blame for WW2 goes to Chamberlain, Most to Hitler and Tojo of course. Admiral Canaris leaked info to British intelligence that if The Allies stood up to Hitler over Czechoslovakia , but Hitler tried anyway, the German generals would depose him. However, communist members of British Intelligence, such as Kim Philby told the Government that Canaris was lying. So, yes, _in a way_, the failure of MI6 and Chamberlain to stand up to Hitler early, did lead to WW2. However, note that this was just a failure to stand up to Hitler early- Hitler was the ultimate cause. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/64 "2024-02-13T20:19:02Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > And wouldn’t that happen with an attack on NATO? Or am I misunderstanding NATO Treaty Article 5, which says " an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all"? Well, that’s exactly the problem. That is what the treaty says, but it requires Trump to actually do that, and he’s already said that he won’t. A Trump presidency will come with a compliant GOP Congress, and that will be all she wrote for NATO and Article 5. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/65 "2024-02-13T20:20:59Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Or am I misunderstanding NATO Treaty Article 5, which says " an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all"? So let’s say that Russia attacks Western Europe, and then NATO asks the US to follow the treaty, and the US does, declares war against Russia, and _then_ Trump acts to aid Russia in some way. Then absolutely that would be treason. But I don’t think the US is automatically at war because a treaty says they are. The treaty is a pledge. The US would still have to follow it. ETA: Ninja’d by @Horatius ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/66 "2024-02-13T20:35:52Z")
nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/67 "2024-02-13T20:44:22Z")
But is it stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/68 "2024-02-13T21:03:01Z")
trump hates Europe because when he was with the European heads of state he could sense their contempt and scorn. It was the exact same contempt and scorn he witnessed directed at his slumlord father by the old money of New York. The more they sneered, the more he seethed. At least that’s my theory 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/69 "2024-02-13T21:15:39Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > It was the exact same contempt and scorn he witnessed directed at his slumlord father by the old money of New York. The more they sneered, the more he seethed. I wonder if Trump sees himself as Julia Roberts in _Pretty Woman_, going back to the snobs in the boutique later. Excuse me while I get a turkey baster to squirt some bleach into my ear to try to clean my brain after that thought. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/70 "2024-02-13T21:16:05Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > The more they sneered, the more he seethed. At least that’s my theory And I think it’s a good one. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/71 "2024-02-13T22:15:23Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > The more they sneered, the more he seethed. At least that’s my theory This desire for petty revenge actually explains everything. We’re in this mess because Obama made fun of him at the White House Correspondents Dinner. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/72 "2024-02-13T22:21:41Z")
It was a beautiful display of roasting. But we’re in this mess because Republican voters let the fucker in, then covered for him, and continue to do so. I will never blame Obama for Trump. I will blame the fuckers who voted for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/73 "2024-02-13T22:27:20Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > This desire for petty revenge actually explains everything. We’re in this mess because Obama made fun of him at the White House Correspondents Dinner. I thought we were in this mess because NBC was paying him less than Christina Aguilera? Still petty revenge, any way you slice it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/74 "2024-02-14T01:20:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep. The old GOP despise the “godless commies”. Now, some of them love Putin. Turns out their problem wasn’t with the USSR’s centralized dictatorship unfriendly to entrepreneurism\* but strictly the godless part. All Putin had to do was restore the Orthodox church to something resembling its role under the czars, and they were hunky-dory with the rest. 🙄 \*a kleptocracy where oligarchs milk the public at the expense of constantly kissing the uninherited czar’s ass isn’t any more friendly to actually entrepreneurial business than Soviet bureaucrats were. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/75 "2024-02-14T02:07:44Z")
Republicans don’t think that thoroughly. Trump likes Putin, Republicans have sold their souls to Donald Trump, real estate con man. That’s the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/76 "2024-02-14T13:38:33Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@sciurophobic](#): > > > > > [@bobot](#): > > > > > > If Trump regains the office, the US _will_ withdraw from NATO > > > > No. Last year Congress passed legislation prohibiting withdrawal from NATO without 2/3 approval of the Senate. > > I’m not sure how they’d enforce that. All Trump has to say, as Commander in Chief, is that there would be no US efforts to assist a NATO member attacked by his buddy Putin. Congress can’t make him _wage_ war, even if they can technically _declare_ war. We’re in for some interesting times ahead if Trump wins. Well, if Congress were to declare war, that would make Russia the enemy by definition, and giving Putin aid and comfort (by refusing to meet our NATO Article 5 obligations) would be treason, as defined in the Constitution, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/77 "2024-02-14T14:14:14Z")
It would be. At which point it would be time to try to convene an impeachment in the House, followed by a conviction in the Senate. Followed by a finding that he must be removed, not merely censured. Good luck getting that through a MAGA-dominated Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/78 "2024-02-14T14:26:34Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Good luck getting that through a MAGA-dominated Congress. Exactly. Everyone who thinks that laws will save us from any of Trump’s excesses need to understand the “But what if we _didn’t…?_” philosophy that underlies everything the GOP has been doing. They have obstructed every good Democratic policy they could, and supported every bad Republican policy they could, mostly by just refusing to do their job when required. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/79 "2024-02-14T15:18:24Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Exactly. Everyone who thinks that laws will save us from any of Trump’s excesses need to understand the “But what if we _didn’t…?_” philosophy that underlies everything the GOP has been doing. They have obstructed every good Democratic policy they could, and supported every bad Republican policy they could, mostly by just refusing to do their job when required. Or another take on it - why do some people expect laws to be followed by people who have already demonstrated a disregard for laws? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485/80 "2024-02-14T16:43:21Z")
I don’t suppose it would have the slightest effect, but one could say to Trump and his supporters that two can play at that game - except that there are 30 other NATO members, who may not be so responsive next time the US wants help, whether in the North Atlantic area or elsewhere. And would the US be that keen on a revived European Defence Community or something similar? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-s-new-low-re-backstabbing-nato/997485.md?page=5)