# Trump speech live 01/08/2019: follow-along thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439 "2019-01-09T01:21:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/301 "2019-01-12T00:38:09Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So you’re saying you’re bad at making clear what your point is? No, his point is very clear. He’s just bad at hiding it and /or making us think it is something else. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/302 "2019-01-12T00:58:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > My goal is to present the other side of the debate in a forum that often lacks diverse perspectives. But you have no side to the “debate”. Trump has taken that from you. Your side lies. Constantly. Daily. By the minute. And they lie to hurt people. Therefore, any cite from a right wing source, especially one from Individual-1 himself (as in post 241) is, quite rightly looked at from that lens. There is no debate anymore, Ditka: we can refuse to debate citations coming from known liars, even if the known liar is the President of the United States. Your cite? It’s rubbish. Your side lies and they do so to hurt people and I… and tens of millions… refuse to give such ideas merit by debating them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/303 "2019-01-12T01:03:18Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > But you have no side to the “debate”. Trump has taken that from you. Your side lies. Constantly. Daily. By the minute. And they lie to hurt people. > > Therefore, any cite from a right wing source, especially one from Individual-1 himself, is, quite rightly looked at from that lens. There is no debate anymore, Ditka: we refuse to debate citations coming from known liars, even if the known liar is the President of the United States. > > Your side lies and they do so to hurt people and I… and tens of millions… refuse to give such ideas merit by debating them. IDGAF. Do you understand that? If you “refuse to debate” and leave my points to remain uncontested for everyone who is less partisan than you who comes along and reads this thread, I’m totally good with that. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/304 "2019-01-12T01:16:56Z")
When “factual accuracy” stops being so “partisan” for your team, I’ll be glad to debate. Until then, your people… especially in the White House… speak evil to commit evil. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/305 "2019-01-12T01:28:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > IDGAF. Do you understand that? If you “refuse to debate” and leave my points to remain uncontested for everyone who is less partisan than you who comes along and reads this thread, I’m totally good with that. You cited a fucking Trump press release, man. Give it like five minutes, your point will be refuted by Trump on his fucking twitter feed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/306 "2019-01-12T01:33:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s my position that the evidence in favor of Bone’s “so” rule is piling up like [cars on an icy highway](https://youtu.be/W9fI5M6_XVk). So you’re saying you plan on hiding behind this sidetrack for the rest of the thread, rather than directly responding to what is said? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/307 "2019-01-12T01:39:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you’re saying you plan on hiding behind this sidetrack for the rest of the thread, rather than directly responding to what is said? To “what was said” in the post that received that response? HAHAHA! HAHAHA! Hahahahahaha! No, I don’t feel the need to respond further to such a juvenile and fact-free post that it could have been written by BPC. If there are other posts that I feel I have a response for or want to share my thoughts on, yes, I’ll respond to those directly. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/308 "2019-01-12T01:48:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > IDGAF. Do you understand that? If you “refuse to debate” and leave my points to remain uncontested for everyone who is less partisan than you who comes along and reads this thread, I’m totally good with that. Do you feel a neutral, unpartisan person would find Trump to be a credible source of anything? It doesn’t take being less partisan to take anything Trump does as a good faith action, it takes being firmly partisan in his direction. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/309 "2019-01-12T10:24:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > To “what was said” in the post that received that response? HAHAHA! HAHAHA! Hahahahahaha! > > No, I don’t feel the need to respond further to such a juvenile and fact-free post that it could have been written by BPC. > > If there are other posts that I feel I have a response for or want to share my thoughts on, yes, I’ll respond to those directly. What, should I put more effort into pointing out that the guy citing a Trump press release is either intentionally or unintentionally spreading nonsensical and dishonest propaganda? I figure at this point anything beyond “you’re wrong” is kinda wasted effort. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/310 "2019-01-12T12:51:39Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > You cited a fucking Trump press release, man. And the first bullet point of that press release was > [@](#): > > The United States Southern Border is overwhelmed with illegal immigration, gang violence, crime, drugs, and human trafficking which is objectively false. A press release is a pretty weak cite for starters, but when it leads off like that, its value as a cite drops to zero. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/311 "2019-01-12T14:52:55Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > What, should I put more effort into pointing out that the guy citing a Trump press release is either intentionally or unintentionally spreading nonsensical and dishonest propaganda? No, and neither should anyone else. Seriously, what’s so hard about ignoring them? Why not let posters like that just drop their partisan “gotchas” into the thread and the rest of us keep on topic? Instead, it becomes thirty posts of inane drivel, trying to get through to someone who didn’t come here to be educated, and is just trying to disrupt the discussion? And thanks to those of us who can’t let a falsehood lay there unchallenged (over and over), they’re succeeding. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/312 "2019-01-12T15:13:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Both Ravenman and DrDeth appear to support at least $100M. Chuck has already agreed to $1.6B. In fact … > > If you’re part of the Pelosi-style “not $1” crowd, you might want to brace yourself for some disappointment from your friends. Have you considered that the $1.6 billion and the $1 are not actually the same thing, and Pelosi and Schumer are actually in agreement with each other? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/313 "2019-01-12T17:18:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > To “what was said” in the post that received that response? HAHAHA! HAHAHA! Hahahahahaha! > > No, I don’t feel the need to respond further to such a juvenile and fact-free post that it could have been written by BPC. > > If there are other posts that I feel I have a response for or want to share my thoughts on, yes, I’ll respond to those directly. That’ll earn you a warning for insults, Hurricane Ditka. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/314 "2019-01-12T17:30:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > IDGAF. Do you understand that? If you “refuse to debate” and leave my points to remain uncontested for everyone who is less partisan than you who comes along and reads this thread, I’m totally good with that. “Aliens are shooting mind control rays into our heads to control us every day. If you refuse to debate this point with me, it means that I win and I am right.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/315 "2019-01-12T18:36:56Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > You cited a fucking Trump press release, man. Give it like five minutes, your point will be refuted by Trump on his fucking twitter feed. I’m reminded of the guy who argued that the Bush administration wasn’t torturing people; his proof was that the Bush administration said it wasn’t torturing people. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/316 "2019-01-12T23:38:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Have you considered that the $1.6 billion and the $1 are not actually the same thing, and Pelosi and Schumer are actually in agreement with each other? I did consider it, but I’m pretty sure they’re both talking about money for steel bollard physical barriers on the southern border. Do you think they’re talking about different things? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/317 "2019-01-12T23:51:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I did consider it, but I’m pretty sure they’re both talking about money for steel bollard physical barriers on the southern border. Do you think they’re talking about different things? No. However, you constantly refuse to acknowledge a simple truth, Pelosi was talking about the entire $5 billion wall in an off-the-cuff comment. She was not talking about the $1.6 billion proposal the includes a partial wall along with more personnel, more technology, etc. to which she has already agreed. Latching onto a single remark in a microphone-in-her-face quickie question while ignoring her actual thoughts and actions throughout this kerfuffle is a clear sign that you are refusing to discuss the matter in good faith. It is about as useful as one of your opponents simply repeating that the whole issue boils down to Trump declaring that he would accept the mantle of a shutdown–something that is closer to factual. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/318 "2019-01-12T23:56:17Z")
ProTip: When one cites the guy who cost an online betting site $250k because their over/under for the number of lies said by him in an _8-minute_ speech was too low @ 3.5, the rest of the argument better be rock-solid. ProTip2: But, wait, it can’t because it’s based on a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/319 "2019-01-13T01:48:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I did consider it, but I’m pretty sure they’re both talking about money for steel bollard physical barriers on the southern border. Do you think they’re talking about different things? Yes. As I understand it, the funding approved in the Senate bill for 2019 is for the same purpose as the funds were approved for border security in 2018, which Pelosi and Schumer both voted for. [http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll127.xml](http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll127.xml) > **[U.S. Senate: U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 115th Congress - 2nd Session](https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1152/vote_115_2_00063.htm?congress=115&session=2&vote=00063)** > > roll\_call\_vote.xml ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439/320 "2019-01-13T13:43:49Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Seriously, what’s so hard about ignoring them? Why not let posters like that just drop their partisan “gotchas” into the thread and the rest of us keep on topic? Instead, it becomes thirty posts of inane drivel, trying to get through to someone who didn’t come here to be educated, and is just trying to disrupt the discussion? > > And thanks to those of us who can’t let a falsehood lay there unchallenged (over and over), they’re succeeding. Stupid’s forever but ignorance can be fixed. Then there’s willful ignorance… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-speech-live-01-08-2019-follow-along-thread/827439.md?page=17)