# Trump Splashback Hits Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023 "2016-10-09T01:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/21 "2016-10-09T06:33:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If all Trump had said was that she was hot and that he tried to get into her pants, it would be no big deal. That Trump cheats on his wives is not exactly news. You seem to be ignoring the part about grabbing her pussy. Which, as I’ve said, he did not do to her but did to others. Against their consent. > You do understand consent, don’t you? Well, first of all we don’t know that he ever actually did that. It may have just been braggadocio intended to play up his status as a star. But assuming what he said is true, then it sounds like the women he did this to were fine with it. No one has complained about it, and if his advances had been met with a slap in the face or outrage I doubt he’d be bragging the exact opposite happened. So if he did indeed grab them that way and their response was to smile and/or look at him with bedroom eyes, then I’d say those responses would qualify as consent. Consent is a response to overtures, after all, and while you may not approve of those overtures, it appears the women he’s claiming to have done this to were fine with it. He, like I, grew up in an era where it was expected that men make the passes and women make the call as to whether to accept them. The idea of overt pre-approval never occurred to anyone, male or female. And I doubt that in the real world things have changed all that much, even today. I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard women speak critically of guys who ask in advance if it’s okay to kiss them. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/22 "2016-10-09T06:35:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No one has complained about it… He’s been accused of rape by his ex-wife and of groping by multiple women. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/23 "2016-10-09T06:37:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s so strange that shock jock Howard Stern has made a fortune for being raunchy. He’s mellowed a little but his raunchy schtick has kept him on the air thirty-five years. > > Yet, people want Billy Bush fired for a conversation he was involved in ten years ago. Again, there’s a substantive difference between raunchy discussions of consensual sex and complete disregard for the importance of consent. Billy Bush laughed along with a guy describing sexual assault. That’s a pretty shitty thing to do. I’d be fired if a similar tape of me came to light. Except I won’t, because there isn’t a tape, because I haven’t had that conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/24 "2016-10-09T06:39:35Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > He’s been accused of rape by his ex-wife and of groping by multiple women. Trump hasn’t been accused by his ex-wife of rape in a sexual sense. She said he made her feel like she’d been raped in their divorce proceedings. She currently supports his candidacy and has spoken favorably of him as president on numerous occasions. And who has accused him of multiple gropings, his ex-wife? The only person I’ve heard make that claim so far is Trump himself. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/25 "2016-10-09T07:03:15Z")
Nope - Ivana described, under oath in a deposition during their divorce, a scene of sexual violence, and she specifically used the word “rape.” Some more details [here](http://fusion.net/story/328522/donald-trump-accused-rape-sexual-assault/): > [@](#): > > During a deposition in the ’90s, Ivana described a harrowing scene in which Trump held her arms back, pulled at her hair, and raped her in a fit of rage. She herself used the word “rape.” The details of the incident were made public in the 1993 book Lost Tycoon: The Many Lives of Donald J. Trump, written by the journalist Harry Hurt III. > > Trump denies this incident took place, and before the book hit shelves his lawyers required that it include a statement at the front written by Ivana, in which she walks back her use of the word “rape.” > > “During a deposition given by me in connection with my matrimonial case, I stated that my husband had raped me,” the statement said. “I referred to this as a ‘rape,’ but I do not want my words to be interpreted in a literal or criminal sense.” > > In her statement she added instead that she felt “violated.” That’s a far cry from simply feeling raped by divorce proceedings. There’s a then-13 year old Jane Doe currently involved in a lawsuit against him for what she claims was a 1994 rape. There’s former business associate Jill Harth, who alleged in a lawsuit that > [@](#): > > Trump took her into one of his children’s bedrooms at his Florida estate Mar-a-Lago, threw her against the wall, began touching her all over, and lifted up her dress. > > In an interview with The Guardian, Harth says she had to physically prevent him from advancing and shouted out: “What are you doing? Stop it.” Adding, “It was a shocking thing to have him do this because he knew I was with George [her partner], he knew they were in the next room. And how could he be doing this when I’m there for business?” CNN anchor Erin Burnett claims that a similar thing happened to [a friend of hers](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/299945-cnn-anchor-tells-story-on-air-of-trump-trying-to-kiss-her) as well. Add to all those repeated stories from the sets of Miss Universe and The Apprentice, and it’s a recurring pattern. Has anything been resolved in court? Well, Trump’s lawyers required that passage in Ivana’s book after their divorce. Harth’s suit was dropped after Trump settled a separate suit with her boyfriend. The Jane Doe case is pending, and Burnett’s friend obviously hasn’t come forward publicly. Still, when there are multiple accusations of sexual assault against somebody who talks the way Trump did in that tape, it’s hard not to believe them. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/26 "2016-10-09T08:12:18Z")
No one seems to know how this out take was saved for 10 years. Out takes are normally discarded. Quite strange. > **[‘Horribly embarrassed’ Billy Bush won’t lose job over Trump tape](https://pagesix.com/2016/10/07/horribly-embarrassed-billy-bush-wont-lost-job-over-trump-tape/?_ga=1.195393388.1978495634.1475915339)** > > Billy Bush is “horribly embarrassed” by the Donald Trump tape — while TV insiders are tittering that it must have been leaked by staffers on his former show “Access Hollywood.R… > [@](#): > > NBC was rife with conspiracy theories about how the tape leaked to the Washington Post. > > Another source told us that: “There are only a few people who could have leaked this. The cameraman, who wouldn’t hold on to it. The editor, who also has no incentive to keep it and [‘Access Hollywood’ executive producer and close Bush pal] Rob Silverstein … They are the ones with access. There would be no reason to hold onto it from 2005. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/27 "2016-10-09T08:33:21Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Nope - Ivana described, under oath in a deposition during their divorce, a scene of sexual violence, and she specifically used the word “rape.” Some more details [here](http://fusion.net/story/328522/donald-trump-accused-rape-sexual-assault/): > That’s a far cry from simply feeling raped by divorce proceedings. How so? In your very cite she states that he didn’t rape her in a literal or criminal sense. How could he have raped her sexually and have it not be in a literal or criminal way? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/28 "2016-10-09T08:59:33Z")
> [@](#): > > The editor, who also has no incentive to keep it… I can see plenty of incentive to keep it. For larks. To show to friends or authorities. As part of a collection of stupid weird things. Accidentally. And many more besides. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/29 "2016-10-09T09:55:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s so strange that shock jock Howard Stern has made a fortune for being raunchy. He’s mellowed a little but his raunchy schtick has kept him on the air thirty-five years. > > Yet, people want Billy Bush fired for a conversation he was involved in ten years ago. The Today Show and the Howard Stern show are different beasts. I suspect that, had Stern recently retired and Bush taken over his show, there would be no calls for him to be removed from his new job. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/30 "2016-10-09T11:51:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **aceplace57** : > > I’m voting for Bill’s wife. The guy that diddles women with cigars. Bill’s wife is the guy who diddles women with cigars? I didn’t even realize she was a guy at all. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/31 "2016-10-09T11:58:07Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Get some women together and their conversation will be just as raunchy. I’ve heard some raunchy shit from women, but it’s not the _norm_ - nor should it be. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/32 "2016-10-09T16:16:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I totally agree Trump was out of line > A complete male pig. > > At the time he was not involved in politics. He didn’t have the self awareness to censor every word he said. Politics doesn’t matter. He was a public figure (famous businessman). Presumably a a mature adult. Not being involved in politics is no excuse. As pointed out, he was 60 years old, not 6. And it was 2005, when technology was capable of catching private words. It wasn’t sometime before recording equipment was invented. He showed bad judgement (to be more kind than he deserves), and has shown exactly what he is. And what he is not: presidential. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/33 "2016-10-09T16:43:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > \ So if he did indeed grab them that way and their response was to smile and/or look at him with bedroom eyes, then I’d say those responses would qualify as consent. \ The “consent” you speak of would have been given _after_ the action took place, by your own words. And if it’s after-the-fact, then it wasn’t really consent. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/34 "2016-10-09T16:44:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How so? In your very cite she states that he didn’t rape her in a literal or criminal sense. How could he have raped her sexually and have it not be in a literal or criminal way? I know that I don’t really have to explain this to you. For some reason you feel the need to blur two separate statements taken years apart into one. Under oath she not only used the word rape she described actions that were undeniably rape. Then when her official under oath statement was coming out in a book Trump made her slightly walk back her statement under threat of a lawsuit. That’s how it happened. You can chose to believe or not that he raped her but implying that she always stated he didn’t rape her is untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/35 "2016-10-09T16:52:51Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > It is a bit much to claim youthful indiscretion when you are 33 years old. Jane Fonda tried it. Of course, she was thirty-_four_ when she was photographed beside an NVA anti-aircraft gun, so maybe that extra year matters. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/36 "2016-10-09T16:59:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > You must have lead a very sheltered life then. > > This stuff is tame compared to conversations among guys that I heard in school. Most of it complete bs and boasting. > > Get some women together and their conversation will be just as raunchy. > > That’s what being human is. We’re all flawed and occasionally vulgar and immature. Sex talk is very common. Bad language is very common. I served on a sub, and both were almost constant subjects. Sexual assault is not very commonly bragged about. It really is different. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/37 "2016-10-09T17:02:25Z")
I came in here simply to congratulate **Bricker** on the thread title’s double entendre. Bravo! MiM ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/38 "2016-10-09T17:20:18Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > The other thing about him is that he is from the political Bush family, nephew to George H.W. Bush and first cousin to George W. and Jeb. He’s also a cousin of fellow NBC News correspondent Jenna Bush Hager. Their positions in the media, like that of Chelsea Clinton, surely having been attained 100% on absolute merit. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/39 "2016-10-09T17:24:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Bill’s wife is the guy who diddles women with cigars? I didn’t even realize she was a guy at all. To be fair, you DON’T have to be male to diddle women with cigars. That’s what the cigar is for. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023/40 "2016-10-09T17:30:05Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > I don’t think he did himself any favors by his [statement on the scandal](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/politics/billy-bush-donald-trump-video.html): > > It is a bit much to claim youthful indiscretion when you are 33 years old. Well, Henry Hyde, who made the term “youthful indiscretion” popular, was over 40, so Bush has some wiggle room, it seems. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-splashback-hits-bush/768023.md?page=3)