# Trump Supporters are Flawed People **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 10, 2016, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345 "2016-11-10T10:27:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/141 "2016-11-10T19:46:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I believe that Hillary and team failed to the extent that they didn’t do a very good job of getting their economic message out to the Rust Belt. > > I would also argue that the Rust Belt failed in turn to hear her above the din of “Crooked Hillary!” and “Lock her up!”. I believe that also and would agree with your argument, except that I think it’s also possible that people simply didn’t care for her economic message. To be sure, there are a lot of factors here, and Mrs. Clinton’s 25 years of being The Most Hated Woman In America contribute greatly to that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/142 "2016-11-10T19:47:16Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Will you? Will you listen? (Royal you, of course.) I can’t speak for the royal we, but I can listen. I love to learn. > [@](#): > > Stop talking and start listening. It should be clear that 50% of the country is comprised of people you really don’t know and don’t understand. Start listening to them. Stop dismissing them as stupid (They may be stupid, many people are, but they are also human and have wants and needs, just like the smart people do.) Stop telling them things and let them tell you things. My parents and sibling voted for trump and straight R down the line. My mother was going to vote for Stein, but changed her mind at the last moment to “Make sure that Bitch doesn’t get into office.” Her words. My sister is anti-vaxx and doesn’t think we’ve been to the moon, my parents lived through polio, so they aren’t anti-vaxx, but they don’t believe in evolution or climate change. I have a number of clients who have expressed their disdain for hillary, and their love of trump over the last months. I listen politely, and the fact that they keep coming back tells me that they don’t think that I am being condescending. I don’t actually get into discussions about the issues though, as I don’t really believe in mixing politics and work. I don’t have many friends, well, any really, that are Trump supporters. Most of the people that would be left in 2012, angry at me for supporting Obama. I didn’t ask them to leave, they just saw my sign, and decided that they could not be associated with me. > [@](#): > > Do you know the best way to make friends? Ask a person about something they are interested in and listen to them talk. > > Do you know the worst way to make friends? Start telling a person about yourself without being asked OR start telling someone about themselves. Good ways to make friends, I 'll agree. Very good advice for children, and even adults who have difficulties getting along socially. Not so good advise when the entire point of this discussion is how to convince voters to vote for the candidate you prefer. I don’t want to be friends with them (though I don’t mind if I am), I want them to vote. > [@](#): > > These people are in reality. Stop insisting they are not. The fact that it is different from your reality doesn’t make it a fantasy. And how do I respond when their beliefs are directly contradicted by reality? There are actual factual things that actually exist in this actual reality. What do you do with people who refuse to acknowledge that? People who claim that global warming is a hoax perpetuated by China, that Clinton had poeple killed in benghazi, or that she had Vince foster killed. That Hillary’s emails are in any way relevant to a substantive policy discussion. I have discussed things with fence sitters and anti-clinton people, and I never get to anything of substance. They just want to go on about how evil she is. How evil the libruls are. How evil I am for supporting them. > [@](#): > > Listen to them, understand what the reality of their life is, empathize with them. I can listen. I can try but cannot promise to understand. I can empathize with them as fellow humans navigating their way through this morass we call a life. But no where in that do I see a plan on getting them to listen to me. You have said all that I have to do to bend over backwards to comfort these people. Is there any chance, do you think, that they will return the favor? That they will listen to me, and mine? Do you think that they will stop screaming “Lock her up”, long enough to pay attention to fairly complicated economic or environmental science? If so, it’s worth a try. > [@](#): > > Are you a religious person, **k9**? Ummm, not really. I was raised quite religious, but always questioned things. My parents and teachers in Church were very upset with many of my questions. I have not written off the idea of some sort of higher power, or purpose to this life, but I do not in any way believe in the words that other men have written. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/143 "2016-11-10T19:47:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s a dilemma. Because in a democracy reason isn’t sufficient. Rhetoric is extraordinarily important. Yet, safeguards that protect against mob rule have been systematically dismantled over the decades to give more power to “the people.” 1/2 the people have an IQ of 100 or less. We don’t necessarily want direct democracy. > > Yet, it’s politically desirable for both parties to have easily manipulated contingents. These people wanting a popular vote don’t know what they are asking for. Well, if the vote had been a popular one we should not be having this thread right now. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/144 "2016-11-10T19:50:22Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Trumpets now gleefully sign their correspondence with “The Basket of Degenerates”. You can’t win people over by condescending to them… \ This is an excellent illustration of why we need to improve the quality of education in this country. Some people apparently think that “accurately describing” means the same thing as “condescending to”… > [@Rigamarole](#): > > If you actually want the Democratic party to continue to exist and have any power at all in the future, your approach to such people needs to change drastically. You need to let them know that **they are valued and appreciated members of society** , and why a Dem candidate/policy better represents _their_ interests. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Okay. > > So we lie to them? Well…it seems to be an effective strategy when the Pubbies do it… ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/145 "2016-11-10T19:50:40Z")
Going back to the issue of minimum wage… how are we to discuss our true feelings on the matter when everyone thinks differently? For example, person A believes it should be abolished, B wants it raised and C couldn’t care less either way. For those who support listening to the other side, is it important to repress our own thoughts in favor of empathizing with whoever’ current viewpoint? Or should we be more honest and, while listening, advocate for those who, say, need a mandated living wage? I’m truly trying to understand the best way to bridge these divides. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/146 "2016-11-10T19:57:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There was no “right” move to win them, so let’s stop playing this game of “It’s YOUR fault you couldn’t convince them that Trump is **an habitual liar** who is lying to them to get what he wants, just like he has lied to everyone else in his lifetime of doing business.” Let’s quit pretending that we didn’t see what we saw at his rallies: White men holding up “Blacks For Trump!” and “Women For Trump!” signs. Let’s not forget the chanting carried out by them and _encouraged_ by Trump to jail his political opponent the instant he gains control of the White House. > Some people can be convinced…but some are hateful little idiots who think that Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh are news reporters, and that “The Truth” is something that can be created by saying the same thing over and over again in a loud enough voice. Trump is their “inner animal” that they have been told to repress, and he has shown them that it is o.k. to release it, that it is o.k. to be rude, crude and socially unacceptable, that you can actually come out ahead by succumbing to your basest emotions and hatreds. He gave his supporters exactly what they wanted(but maybe not what they needed, considering that he can’t deliver on his promises), so those of you who claim that we approached them wrong: Please spell out what the “right” approach might have been, considering Trump already did the equivalent of telling them that he was going to take them all to The Big Rock Candy Mountain? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > And they voted in **an habitual liar** who knows nothing about either. > Maybe you’ll answer this oft-asked(but yet to be answered) question: > Considering his life-long habit of making deals, getting what he wants, then doing his best to back out on his end of the deal, what makes you think that he has suddenly turned around 180 degrees ethics-wise and will even attempt to keep any of the promises he made to get the power he wanted? In short-_WHY do you trust him?_ JFTR, the “h” is NOT silent… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/147 "2016-11-10T20:06:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > This is an excellent illustration of why we need to improve the quality of education in this country. Some people apparently think that “accurately describing” means the same thing as “condescending to”… > > Well…it seems to be an effective strategy when the Pubbies do it… On a short list of cabinet positions proposed by Trump, Ben Carson has been pointed out as Secretary of Education. [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/305354-buzzfeed-obtains-preliminary-list-of-trump-cabinet-picks](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/305354-buzzfeed-obtains-preliminary-list-of-trump-cabinet-picks) They are making the baby Carl Sagan cry… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/148 "2016-11-10T20:10:50Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I believe that also and would agree with your argument, except that I think it’s also possible that people simply didn’t care for her economic message. > > To be sure, there are a lot of factors here, and Mrs. Clinton’s 25 years of being The Most Hated Woman In America contribute greatly to that. Considering the source of news a lot of them are locked into, it is more likely they didn’t care for the _interpretation_ of her economic message that was fed to them over and over and over again. You keep harping on this “empathy” kick, but no amount of empathy can counteract the type of media manipulation that exists today and, like I said before, from many years of experience in a company where I dare not give my own opinion I have seen no evidence that listening and/or empathy is something they desire. They want agreement and support. Would you have me lie to them? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/149 "2016-11-10T20:13:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Well, let’s start with the fact that in the post of mine you quoted, you obviously didn’t read or chose to ignore the words “(Royal you, of course.)”. You didn’t pay attention to what I wrote, you paid attention to what you wanted to pay attention to. “Royal I”. Okay, _we_. What makes you think _we_ haven’t been paying attention? I used myself as an example, because I know my own experience, but last I checked, most of the people here don’t live in San Francisco. We know Trump supporters. **Czarcasm** works surrounded by these people and he’s clearly not on your side on this one. We’ve heard them, loud and clear, this _entire_ election. It’s just that they’re wrong. That the way they see reality is objectively fucking _crazy_. When you look at how often Trump has lied, and how often he changed his position, and then you look at the polls that consistently showed that he was rated as _more trustworthy than Clinton_, it should be obvious that something has gone totally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/150 "2016-11-10T20:13:38Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > JFTR, the “h” is NOT silent… Broke my own rule of reading the post aloud before hitting send-Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/151 "2016-11-10T20:13:38Z")
> [@joyfool](#): > > Going back to the issue of minimum wage… how are we to discuss our true feelings on the matter when everyone thinks differently? For example, person A believes it should be abolished, B wants it raised and C couldn’t care less either way. For those who support listening to the other side, is it important to repress our own thoughts in favor of empathizing with whoever’ current viewpoint? Or should we be more honest and, while listening, advocate for those who, say, need a mandated living wage? I’m truly trying to understand the best way to bridge these divides. Listen first. Don’t advocate. Don’t explain. Just listen. Yes, in that sense you’ll have to repress your own thoughts. Just like you would with a Pagan explaining their religion, or a Hindu or a Shinto or a Communist. There are two goals: to learn and to create a bond. There’s an old Chris Rock bit that I like where he asks “Who knows what the 4 most important words are for a happy relationship?” Someone in the audience yells out “I love you!” and he points out that they are wrong, that’s only 3 words and not the most important. The answer is “How was your day?” because all anyone wants is a chance to run their fuckin’ mouth. The whole bit is somewhat misogynst as it plays on male and female stereotypes, but the core is true: All anyone wants is a chance to run their fucking mouth. (It’s why we all love the Dope, isn’t it?) Remember the goal: get people on your side. Get them to like you by listening to them. Get them to respect you by showing that you respect them. Understand their point of view. “Do I have that right? I don’t think/feel/do that, but do I understand your point of view correctly?” Empathize with them. “Ddamn that sucks.” “That’s awesome; I’m so happy for you!” Personal bonds can overcome religious and political differences, IME. The power of a charismatic person is that they are able to forge those bonds quickly and without much overt effort. Those of us who fall short of Bill Clinton or Barack Obama or Sammy Davis, Jr. (seriously, this guy was so universally well-liked that it is hard to describe; I have dozens of stories from people who used to work with him) have to put in a little extra effort, but it can be done. And once people respect you, they’ll respect your post of view, maybe even to the point where they start to reconsider their own POV. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/152 "2016-11-10T20:21:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > She failed to consider that many people don’t want the minimum wage raised, or to exist at all. Well, she probably considered it, but you get the idea. Lots of people have legitimate disagreements with Clinton’s platform. Disagreements with the platform can be had without a person being stupid, a racist, a misogynist, or otherwise deplorable. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I believe that also and would agree with your argument, except that I think it’s also possible that people simply didn’t care for her economic message. > > To be sure, there are a lot of factors here, and Mrs. Clinton’s 25 years of being The Most Hated Woman In America contribute greatly to that. Agreed and agreed. There are legitimate arguments that may be made against any one or more of her platforms. However, a very large proportion of her detractors did not make those informed arguments. They rejected her out of ignorance not informed opinions. They rejected her based on hate and prejudice encouraged by Trump and parroted by his surrogates. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/153 "2016-11-10T20:22:20Z")
> [@joyfool](#): > > Going back to the issue of minimum wage… how are we to discuss our true feelings on the matter when everyone thinks differently? For example, person A believes it should be abolished, B wants it raised and C couldn’t care less either way. For those who support listening to the other side, is it important to repress our own thoughts in favor of empathizing with whoever’ current viewpoint? Or should we be more honest and, while listening, advocate for those who, say, need a mandated living wage? I’m truly trying to understand the best way to bridge these divides. There are good reasons to oppose a relatively high national minimum wage without making any statement about ‘empathy’. Costs of living vary widely in a huge diverse country like the US. Hence what’s still a relatively low wage some places is high enough other places to seriously distort the labor market, eg. $15/hr in San Fran or NY v rural KY. This is assuming we accept the concept that at _some level_ mandated wages become counter productive, or else we could just double our average national standard of living by mandating everyone get paid twice what they earn now. 🙂 So, if one size fits all would be suboptimal, why not have modifications/corrections to address this…but then why not leave it to states and municipalities, which is another basic philosophical difference obscured by pretending, or maybe some people honestly believe it but are misguided IMO, that every issue is a moral issue and moreover pushing for left-tending big federal govt solutions is what good people do, and ever opposing them is what bad people do. And minimum wages in general, even where they aren’t high enough to seriously distort the labor market, are a less efficient way to redistribute wealth than just taxing some people and giving the money to others, subsidizing low wages. That latter doesn’t increase the cost of labor at the individual job, thus doesn’t reduce the demand for labor for that job, which a min wage will always do to some degree, the question being how much. And again that’s potentially significant if the single national min wage is far above what the labor is actually worth (what the market would pay for it with no govt mandate) in a particular locale. So a min wage is itself a compromise policy, if it’s judged that the polity wouldn’t support wage subsidies. At least almost all economists would agree on that, though some people uneducated in economics might actually believe a min wage not to have any negative side effects. It still does, except in the limit where it’s not raising the wage much above where the market would put it anyway (you’ll find that ‘studies’ saying min wages don’t decrease, or even marginally increase, employment are in high cost areas where the min wage isn’t much different than what employers would have to pay to fill the jobs with no min wage). Again it all amounts to a very murky situation once you try to apply a moral filter or test to most actual policies. And of course a lot of the reasons people vote for A or B, or don’t show up, don’t have to do with policy specifics anyway. And I disagree with the otherwise articulate poster who said gut feel considerations are any more prevalent with ‘conservative’ voters in the US (Trump isn’t really a conservative, some of his voters are others aren’t either) than 'liberal voters, or GOP v Democrats. And at risk of too long and too many topics, IMO it’s key to focus on the drop in turnout among Democratic groups in this election; a big wave of super-positive on Trump voters is not mainly what happened. Why was the Obama coalition demoralized by HRC? That’s really more the core question than ‘flawed’ Trumped voters (with the almost unbelievably arrogant implication that non Trump voters aren’t also flawed). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/154 "2016-11-10T20:23:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Considering the source of news a lot of them are locked into, it is more likely they didn’t care for the _interpretation_ of her economic message that was fed to them over and over and over again. You keep harping on this “empathy” kick, but no amount of empathy can counteract the type of media manipulation that exists today and, like I said before, from many years of experience in a company where I dare not give my own opinion I have seen no evidence that listening and/or empathy is something they desire. They want agreement and support. Would you have me lie to them? Your first sentence is undoubtedly true for a lot of people; no doubt this a complex subject we are discussing with many, many factors contributing to the whole. I’m sorry your employment situation is so stressful for you. Yes, people want agreement and support, and empathy is a form of that. As a general rule in life, I don’t advocate lying. I do advocate being assertive. If you feel you cannot disagree with anyone at work, that seems like a bad work situation. The money must be great or something for you to stay in a place, helping people you don’t like make even more money. Have you thought about finding a place to work that had a better balance between your personal goals and the goals of the people you work with and for? Or are there reasons that preclude such a search? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/155 "2016-11-10T20:27:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Agreed and agreed. > > There are legitimate arguments that may be made against any one or more of her platforms. > > However, a very large proportion of her detractors did not make those informed arguments. They rejected her out of ignorance not informed opinions. They rejected her based on hate and prejudice encouraged by Trump and parroted by his surrogates. They rejected her. That part is over. Figuring out why they rejected her is where we are right now. Figuring out how to deal with that is the next step. But until we know what they thought, what they felt was wrong, _and why_, no effective strategy to counter can be devised. It isn’t enough to declare: they did it out of ignorance. I can guarantee that exactly zero Trump supporters, when asked “why did you vote for Trump?” will answer “Ignorance.” ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/156 "2016-11-10T20:29:40Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > And at risk of too long and too many topics, IMO it’s key to focus on the drop in turnout among Democratic groups in this election; a big wave of super-positive on Trump voters is not mainly what happened. Why was the Obama coalition demoralized by HRC? That’s really more the core question than ‘flawed’ Trumped voters (with the almost unbelievably arrogant implication that non Trump voters aren’t also flawed). Yup. As I mentioned on the other thread, if Hillary had gotten the same votes as Kerry in PA, MI and WI she would have won. She didn’t even need the full Obama coalition. So ultimately it doesn’t matter whether Trump voters are racist, sexist, flawed or whatever. The Dems need to figure out why they couldn’t get their voters out. I think part of the answer is that Hillary was a weak candidate and part is that the Dems took their white working class voters in the Midwest for granted. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/157 "2016-11-10T20:29:43Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The power of a charismatic person is that they are able to forge those bonds quickly and without much overt effort. Those of us who fall short of Bill Clinton or Barack Obama or Sammy Davis, Jr. (seriously, this guy was so universally well-liked that it is hard to describe; I have dozens of stories from people who used to work with him) have to put in a little extra effort, but it can be done. And once people respect you, they’ll respect your post of view, maybe even to the point where they start to reconsider their own POV. I hear what you’re saying but I want to point out that it’s a two way street. Just as the candidate must put in the work to listen to his/her audience, so must each individual in the audience put in the work to make sure what he/she is being told is factually correct, or whether it just _feels good_. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/158 "2016-11-10T20:31:50Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > They rejected her. That part is over. Figuring out why they rejected her is where we are right now. For a very large number of them, it came down to two things: 1. She was untrustworthy 2. She did awful horrible things Except, as people _keep on saying_, it ain’t fuckin’ true. It largely comes down to the crap they were fed by the right-wing media. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/159 "2016-11-10T20:36:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Listen first. Don’t advocate. Don’t explain. Just listen. > > Yes, in that sense you’ll have to repress your own thoughts. Just like you would with a Pagan explaining their religion, or a Hindu or a Shinto or a Communist. There are two goals: to learn and to create a bond. > > There’s an old Chris Rock bit that I like where he asks “Who knows what the 4 most important words are for a happy relationship?” Someone in the audience yells out “I love you!” and he points out that they are wrong, that’s only 3 words and not the most important. The answer is “How was your day?” because all anyone wants is a chance to run their fuckin’ mouth. The whole bit is somewhat misogynst as it plays on male and female stereotypes, but the core is true: All anyone wants is a chance to run their fucking mouth. (It’s why we all love the Dope, isn’t it?) > > Remember the goal: get people on your side. Get them to like you by listening to them. Get them to respect you by showing that you respect them. Understand their point of view. “Do I have that right? I don’t think/feel/do that, but do I understand your point of view correctly?” Empathize with them. “Ddamn that sucks.” “That’s awesome; I’m so happy for you!” > > Personal bonds can overcome religious and political differences, IME. The power of a charismatic person is that they are able to forge those bonds quickly and without much overt effort. Those of us who fall short of Bill Clinton or Barack Obama or Sammy Davis, Jr. (seriously, this guy was so universally well-liked that it is hard to describe; I have dozens of stories from people who used to work with him) have to put in a little extra effort, but it can be done. And once people respect you, they’ll respect your post of view, maybe even to the point where they start to reconsider their own POV. At this point I am not sure if you are giving advice to individuals or candidates, but I am going to assume that this advice is not for candidates, as it would be impossible for even a local pol to spend as much time as you are suggesting. I mean you are kind of giving universal advice that only works on a personal level. So, rather then gernalirties, I am asking specifics here. You are the liberal friend, I will play a Trump supporter. I am not being snarky, I am going to ask you the questions or make the statements that I have had made at me, and I had no way to repsond. Here goes. “The Clinton’s had Vince Foster killed!” “Global warming is a hoax by the [elite, china, liberals, scientists]” “Evolution is a lie.” “The pyramids were built to store grain.” “Black people need to know their place.” “Homosexuals should be castrated and imprisoned.” “Vaccines cause autism” (yes I know this one spans both side of the aisle, but I am curious as to how you would deal with this sort of non-reality.) “Hillary … Benghazi” I think I’ve heard every possible combination of words in that phrase, you can pick one, or I can clarify later if you like. “Solendra…” This one is a bit old, but I heard it only about a month ago with a trump supporter talking about how useless the liberals policies are. “She’s a felon! Lock her up!” “The government has no place in bankruptcy. They shouldn’t determine what you get to keep.” Not a national cry, but one from an acquaintance. I must admit that I was flummoxed by this. If the govt were not involved in bankruptcy, you lose everything and go to debtor’s prison. This person had been through a bankruptcy, and was angry with the government over it. eh, I could go on, and on, and on, but I 'll leave it there. If you have any desire to help me to respond to these questions and statements, that would be great. If not, I understand, because I had no good answer to them either. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345/160 "2016-11-10T20:37:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I hear what you’re saying but I want to point out that it’s a two way street. Just as the candidate must put in the work to listen to his/her audience, so must each individual in the audience put in the work to make sure what he/she is being told is factually correct, or whether it just _feels good_. Do you think a vote for something that _feels good_ counts less than a vote for something that is factually correct? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-are-flawed-people/771345.md?page=9)