# Trump supporters live in a "bubble", not the "Blue States" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 17, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040 "2017-02-17T13:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/41 "2017-02-17T17:17:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, it wasn’t. Trump has always been at the heart of the establishment you’re describing. It doesn’t matter. If Trump voters \*perceived \*him as anti-establishment, then voting for Trump, to give a middle finger to the establishment, made sense from their perspective. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/42 "2017-02-17T17:46:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Unless they voted for Trump, of course. Those people are isolated, un-educated, and living in a bubble. > > No doubt that accounts for the flood of thoughtful attention liberals have been giving Trump voters, to find out their concerns and world view. > > Regards, > Shodan You didn’t even vote for Trump. yes, anyone who voted for trump is in a bubble of some sort, whether it be a conservative bubble, a racist bubble, a general …phobia bubble, a bernie bubble, a hate for hillary bubble, or just an information bubble in which they were not exposed to the fact that trumps statements were entirely lies. So, unless you think of yourself as being in a bubble apart from the rest of the world, and that trump voters are the right ones, then yes, even you would have to agree that they are in a bubble. > [@Corry\_El](#): > > Sorry but that’s just the usual debating tactic of recent times for people on the left to say they are morally better. There’s nothing in conservatism against any of that. It doesn’t distinguish left and right at all in theoretical terms. The question would be what constitutes it (are bigger govt and higher taxes necessary to ‘see other people as worthy of respect’, etc), and how much the political parties represent philosophies as opposed to coalitions of interest groups. Sorry, but you are incorrect here. Recognizing other’s rights to exist with dignity does not make one more moral. There are plenty of times thourought history that the acceptably moral thing to do was not to recognize the rights and dignities of other humans. Liberals have been considered to be immoral for their push towards a equality, in that blacks or women should not be a part of society, and there was quite a bit of moralizing that this was the case, and that is was the abolistionists or the suffrageists that were on the wrong side. So, while I personally think it is better to be a liberal, and to follow through on the philosophy of pushing for equality and egalitarianism, there are other schools of argument. > [@](#): > > Student of history generally agree the Democrats and Republicans of the late 19th century were almost purely the latter, hard to find any consistent difference in ‘ideology’. To discuss that topic in today’s politics as a whole would become a tangential debate. But interest group coalitions are still a big part of what both of them are, and that tends to reflect back on the practical meaning of ‘liberal’ and ‘conservative’ because they are now viewed as the ‘liberal’ and ‘conservative’ parties. You are talking about democrats and republicans in this paragraph, two political parties that have shifted their philosophical ideologies constantly through the years. The side that was liberal and the side that was conservative has changed. Meanwhile, the ideology of what it means to be a conservative vs what it means to be a liberal has not changed nearly as much. > [@](#): > > But IMO it is somewhat topical to this thread in one aspect, which is that ‘bubble’ somewhat relates to the surprising success of Trump from POV of the upper middle class blue bubble which characterizes many people who work in the media. And arguably part of the transformation of the GOP w/ Trump is more toward interest group politics, the rural party, the working class party, and away from the ‘conservative’ party. Whereas I think it’s reasonable to say the Democrats have been relatively more of an interest group party less eager to call itself ideological, but now perhaps moving in the opposite direction to the GOP toward a more purely ideological party, in part because of GOP success defeating elected non-ideological (‘moderate’) Democrats so fewer exist. From the perspective of a member of the Trump voting demographic (white, middle aged straight male with no college degree), I am not sure why you think that republicans would represent my interest better than the democrats. I contend that the only major difference between myself and a trump voter is that I take it upon myself to be informed about the going ons about the world, the country, and my community, while most of the people I know of that voted for trump, (who exist in the exact same social, economic, ethnic class, as well as sharing precisely the same geography) are fairly ignorant of anything going on outside their very small areas, either though intent, or just being too busy to keep up with all the happenings. With that in mind, I strongly argue that it is those who do not inform themselves about what is happening in the world, the country, and their community to be the ones in the bubble, rather than the ones who do take it upon themselves to be engaged. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/43 "2017-02-17T17:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **k9bfriender** : > > Sorry, but you are incorrect here. Recognizing other’s rights to exist with dignity does not make one more moral. There are plenty of times thourought history that the acceptably moral thing to do was not to recognize the rights and dignities of other humans. Wait, what? > [@](#): > > Liberals have been considered to be immoral for their push towards a equality, in that blacks or women should not be a part of society, and there was quite a bit of moralizing that this was the case, and that is was the abolistionists or the suffrageists that were on the wrong side. Yes, but the people who considered them immoral were wrong. Morality is not based on what other people think. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/44 "2017-02-17T17:55:01Z")
Remind me which group was caught completely by surprise by the results of the election again? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/45 "2017-02-17T17:58:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Remind me which group was caught completely by surprise by the results of the election again? Both. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/46 "2017-02-17T18:07:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, what? > > Yes, but the people who considered them immoral were wrong. Morality is not based on what other people think. We consider it to be wrong now, but being an abolitionist in the early 1800’s would put you on the wrong side of most of the population, and they would declare you to be immoral for your actions of freeing or helping slaves. We can say that those who are against gay rights and trans rights and all the other forms of equality will be shown to be “wrong” when viewed through the perspective of the future looking back on now as the past, but it wasn’t all that long ago that just being gay was considered to be immoral by the majority of the population, and is still considered to be so by a significant chunk of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/47 "2017-02-17T18:11:30Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > In contrast, the “Trump regions” tend to be isolated, homogenous in demographics and thought, less educated and less connected to the rest of the world. Where do you get such troll bait nonsense? 1. you are saying half the country is isolated, right have fun pulling that off. 2. So people with masters degrees and PHD’s are less educated than what exactly? My you have such a myopic view. Uninteresting considering you do not know anything about anyone at all, except perhaps yourself. And i dont think you even know anything about yourself or you would already realize you are a useless pot stirring troll and would be seeking professional help from some educated AND intelligent person. Here is half a troll cookie so you don’t starve, now go seek some kind of mental help huh? And for the record, if you called Hillary’s supporters stupid inbred morons, i would probably agree to hold you down for them while they beat the hell out of you. And i don’t like Hillary. Go ponder that for a bit. > [@](#): > > From what I can tell, the mindset tends to be “we like our little world the way it is and we don’t want anything intruding on it”. Which, to me, is the definition of a “bubble”. Which would equally describe the Hillary camp and any other group as well, unless you are into self delusion? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/48 "2017-02-17T18:24:15Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Both. Still in the bubble, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/49 "2017-02-17T18:37:51Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Both. Undoubtedly some Trump supporters were surprised, but given that Hillary was favored to win, it would of course be Hillary supporters who would be more caught by surprise. (I realize that, as mentioned upthread, people would prefer that this not be a Trump supporters vs. Hillary supporters thing and more a right vs. left thing) ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/50 "2017-02-17T18:47:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still in the bubble, huh? _Every_ Trump voter I know can’t believe he actually won. They’re happy, but they’re just as shocked as everyone else. This includes the ones who held their noses and voted for Trump because they felt compelled to vote (R), but it’s especially true of the friends I have who are die-hard Trump supporters. They were supporting the underdog from day one. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/51 "2017-02-17T19:13:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, it’s true. The majority isn’t determined by states and counties. It’s determined by people. The majority voted for Clinton and the minority voted for Trump. And people who live in small towns are more isolated than people who live in large cities. [Here’s](http://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/)a map of the counties that voted for Trump vs. those that went for Hillary. Which look more isolated to you? Or do you believe the East Coast is contiguous with the West? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, unless you think of yourself as being in a bubble apart from the rest of the world, and that trump voters are the right ones, then yes, even you would have to agree that they are in a bubble. Who would you say is in more of a bubble - a conservative posting on the SDMB, or a liberal posting here? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/52 "2017-02-17T19:18:38Z")
Socially, virtually everyone is in a bubble. People prefer to associate with people like themselves and it is a well-understood phenomenon that most people have the idea that [most other people world think like they do](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect), because of their bubbles. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/53 "2017-02-17T19:19:49Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > During the election, this idea kept circulating that the “Blue States”, particularly cities such as New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles live in a “Liberal bubble”. The implication that these cities or regions are some sort of isolated enclaves that are out of touch with the realities of the rest of the world and hold a disproportionate influence over the rest of the country. > … > > From what I can tell, the mindset tends to be “we like our little world the way it is and we don’t want anything intruding on it”. Which, to me, is the definition of a “bubble”. Post snipped. If you want a bit of research check these out: > [@](#): > > The hardest part, Haidt finds, is getting liberals to open their minds. Anecdotally, he reports that when he talks about authority, loyalty and sanctity, many people in the audience spurn these ideas as the seeds of racism, sexism and homophobia. And in a survey of 2,000 Americans, Haidt found that self-described **liberals, especially those who called themselves “very liberal,” were worse at predicting the moral judgments of moderates and conservatives than moderates and conservatives were at predicting the moral judgments of liberals. Liberals don’t understand conservative values. And they can’t recognize this failing, because they’re so convinced of their rationality, open-mindedness and enlightenment.** [Link](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/books/review/the-righteous-mind-by-jonathan-haidt.html). Note, Haidt is a liberal. [Link](https://www.amazon.com/Righteous-Mind-Divided-Politics-Religion/dp/0307455777)to the actual book. [Link](http://www.yourmorals.org/explore.php) to his Morailty Quiz site where you can run through tests. The bubble isn’t so much rural vs. urban or accepting vs. not accepting but more ‘I understand your reasoning but disagree with your conclusion’ (conservatives/moderates) v.s ‘I disagree with your conclusion based on \*my \*reasoning’ (liberals). A note, I am a bit distrustful of [social psychology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis#Replication_rates_in_psychology) for [reasons](http://heterodoxacademy.org/2015/09/14/bbs-paper-on-lack-of-political-diversity/)I won’t get into here. However, Haidt seems to be pretty good and the research has been backed up by further studies. FTR, I am fiscally conservative, socially liberal and didn’t vote for Trump. Slee ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/54 "2017-02-17T19:20:02Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > _Every_ Trump voter I know can’t believe he actually won. They’re happy, but they’re just as shocked as everyone else. This includes the ones who held their noses and voted for Trump because they felt compelled to vote (R), but it’s especially true of the friends I have who are die-hard Trump supporters. > > They were supporting the underdog from day one. Trump even was surprised, so those trying to paint it as a liberal thing to have been surprised by his win are doing an exceptionally poor job of it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/55 "2017-02-17T19:24:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > We consider it to be wrong now, but being an abolitionist in the early 1800’s would put you on the wrong side of most of the population, and they would declare you to be immoral for your actions of freeing or helping slaves. > > We can say that those who are against gay rights and trans rights and all the other forms of equality will be shown to be “wrong” when viewed through the perspective of the future looking back on now as the past, but it wasn’t all that long ago that just being gay was considered to be immoral by the majority of the population, and is still considered to be so by a significant chunk of the population. Again, that doesn’t matter. They were wrong. Let me give an example. There are times in (pre) history where going out and murdering people for not being part of my family was considered moral. That doesn’t make it moral. If I went and did that today, it would be immoral. The idea that something isn’t moral because it was considered immoral in the past is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/56 "2017-02-17T19:25:41Z")
There is this notion among some liberals that people vote based off of facts and evidence, and that if people vote for the “wrong” candidate/party, it’s because they weren’t informed enough to know better, or that they had the wrong facts, or weren’t educated enough, or that the liberal party didn’t sell/present its case well enough. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/57 "2017-02-17T19:35:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Here’s](http://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/)a map of the counties that voted for Trump vs. those that went for Hillary. Which look more isolated to you? Or do you believe the East Coast is contiguous with the West? Well, superimposing that on a population map., I see that the red counties are largely lowly populated rural areas, with highly isolated populations. If your point is that the next liberal “bubble” geographically to a city is farther for the dems than the next conservative “bubble” is geographically to a republican leaning county, you have a point. I don’t see what it has to do with anything, but at least that is a correct statement. If you are trying to say that conservatives live closer together and encounter each other more often than liberals do, then you are simply incorrect, though if that were true, that would have some relevance to what is being talked about. > [@](#): > > Who would you say is in more of a bubble - a conservative posting on the SDMB, or a liberal posting here? I would say that those in the bubble are those who are not posting here at all. Even the conservatives posting here have their bubbles broken, because they have made the choice to engage with others outside their immediate geographic circles. I do not think that there are many liberals on here that I would describe as being “bubbled”, and actually very few of the conservatives either. Now, are there some, you betcha. They annoy me when they are on my side of the ideological divide, and should annoy you when they are on yours. We are entirely talking about people who do not take the initiative to engage themselves in the process of getting information and perspective, but instead simply allow it to come to them them through whatever media is most convenient to them, whether it be through TV, radio, social contact or internet. > [@](#): > > Regards, > Shodan And you, my friend, you have a great day, k9bfriender ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/58 "2017-02-17T19:37:25Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > _Every_ Trump voter I know can’t believe he actually won. They’re happy, but they’re just as shocked as everyone else. This includes the ones who held their noses and voted for Trump because they felt compelled to vote (R), but it’s especially true of the friends I have who are die-hard Trump supporters. > > They were supporting the underdog from day one. That’s precisely what it means to be in a bubble-- the info you get from the people you know is not representative of the larger population. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/59 "2017-02-17T19:51:28Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > _Every_ Trump voter I know can’t believe he actually won. Not so in my case: it was pointed out to me by Trump voters that he was the one drawing the big crowds. I still thought he wouldn’t win, of course. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040/60 "2017-02-17T19:53:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Again, that doesn’t matter. They were wrong. > > Let me give an example. There are times in (pre) history where going out and murdering people for not being part of my family was considered moral. That doesn’t make it moral. If I went and did that today, it would be immoral. > > The idea that something isn’t moral because it was considered immoral in the past is silly. That would be silly, but is not what I said. I did not say that things are not or could not be moral today because they were immoral in the past. My point is simply that morality does change. What was moral in the past is not moral now. Judging people of a different time by today’s morals is silly. Judging people of today by future morals is even sillier. Contrary to what Chronos said, morality is determined exactly by what other people think. def.“a particular system of values and principles of conduct, especially one held by a specified person or society.” By definition, morals are the values that society holds. The values that society holds change. Therefore… morals change. We can look back, and say that people in the past who did not adhere to our morals were wrong (but then you get to define what wrong means in this context), but we cannot say that they were immoral. Back to my original point, in which case I was accused of trying to be morally superior by holding to an ideal of equality which started this tangent, it has not always been the moral standpoint, the standpoint that reflects the values and principles of conduct of society, to be for equality, it has in fact been an immoral position to take for much of history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-live-in-a-bubble-not-the-blue-states/780040.md?page=4)