# Trump supporters who need the ACA are in for a rude surprise **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301 "2016-12-21T15:08:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/61 "2016-12-29T17:41:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That isn’t what “optimism” is. > > Optimist in 1939: “Well, here comes another World War. This is going to bed very tough, but we can overcome Nazism and restore peace and decency if we work and fight really hard.” > > Pessimist: “Hitler will win and we’re all doomed.” > > I’m glad the pessimists weren’t in charge of the war effort. I’m glad, too. And your description of optimism is good. I’ll get there, but I’m not there yet. Hell, the man isn’t even President, so presumably, he’s still holding back to some extent. WTF does he have in store for us when he’s unleashed? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/62 "2016-12-29T17:46:10Z")
Whatever will keep him in headlines and/or profit. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/63 "2016-12-29T17:58:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That isn’t what “optimism” is. > > Optimist in 1939: “Well, here comes another World War. This is going to bed very tough, but we can overcome Nazism and restore peace and decency if we work and fight really hard.” > > Pessimist: “Hitler will win and we’re all doomed.” > > I’m glad the pessimists weren’t in charge of the war effort. Bloodiest war in human history. There were no optimists. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/64 "2016-12-29T18:11:21Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That isn’t what “optimism” is. > > Optimist in 1939: “Well, here comes another World War. This is going to bed very tough, but we can overcome Nazism and restore peace and decency if we work and fight really hard.” > > Pessimist: “Hitler will win and we’re all doomed.” > > I’m glad the pessimists weren’t in charge of the war effort. I dunno. A few less German optimists, and the war might never have started in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/65 "2016-12-29T22:43:55Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > How do we compete politically with people who are openly and proudly divorced from reality? One american I liked said this a long time ago. > [@Thomas Jefferson](#): > > And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/66 "2016-12-30T05:30:03Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > One american I liked said this a long time ago. So you’re suggesting we overthrow Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/67 "2016-12-30T06:03:54Z")
That moron doesn’t understand that we _can’t_ overthrow Trump–he won’t be president for about 22 more days. Currently he has exactly zero power. If Obama step down tonight, and Biden, and then the Speaker, then the President Pro Temp of the Senat, the the Sec of State, then Sec of the Treasury, all the way down something like 15 more steps…if they ALL step down, after that, it _still_ doesn’t go to Trump. There is _no way_ Trump has any power until Jan 20th, noon-ish. That’s why these hysterics are so embarrassing. They’re so crazed that they don’t even understand basic realities of life. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/68 "2016-12-30T06:13:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So you’re suggesting we overthrow Trump? I think he said we should feed him to a tree. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/69 "2016-12-30T09:20:46Z")
Sorta like Old Man Willow in LOTR? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/70 "2016-12-30T11:56:58Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > There is _no way_ Trump has any power until Jan 20th, noon-ish. > > That’s why these hysterics are so embarrassing. They’re so crazed that they don’t even understand basic realities of life. While I don’t endorse vague “overthrow Trump” rhetoric either now or during his time in office, **you** are the moron if you don’t perceive that Trump, in real terms, does indeed have plenty of power right now. Not only personal financial power but power to influence public opinion, power to influence other countries’ policies by declaring his own policy goals, power to influence domestic markets and economies by making preparations for his administration’s policies and logistics, etc. Yes, Trump will not exercise any of the specific official powers of the Presidency until he takes office. But only a fool would imagine that those are the only kind of power there is. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/71 "2016-12-30T12:08:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > While I don’t endorse vague “overthrow Trump” rhetoric either now or during his time in office, **you** are the moron if you don’t perceive that Trump, in real terms, does indeed have plenty of power right now. > > Not only personal financial power but power to influence public opinion, power to influence other countries’ policies by declaring his own policy goals, power to influence domestic markets and economies by making preparations for his administration’s policies and logistics, etc. Correct. An example: [Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Removes References to ‘Climate’ from Web Site](http://www.snopes.com/wisconsin-department-natural-resources-removes-references-climate-website). It’s already starting. Trump doesn’t believe in climate change, therefore references to it are already being erased. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/72 "2016-12-30T13:38:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > While I don’t endorse vague “overthrow Trump” rhetoric either now or during his time in office, **you** are the moron if you don’t perceive that Trump, in real terms, does indeed have plenty of power right now. > > Not only personal financial power but power to influence public opinion, power to influence other countries’ policies by declaring his own policy goals, power to influence domestic markets and economies by making preparations for his administration’s policies and logistics, etc. > > Yes, Trump will not exercise any of the specific official powers of the Presidency until he takes office. But only a fool would imagine that those are the only kind of power there is. Well stated. And I’ll add power to cause [chaos and confusion](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-chaos-theory-of-donald-trump-sowing-confusion-through-tweets/2016/12/23/11e1315c-c928-11e6-85b5-76616a33048d_story.html) because of his twitterrhea and need to be constantly in the headlines even if he has to lie and spread fake news. The Dufus-Elect doesn’t bother to inform himself before he spouts off on any random topic, because, after all, he’s “real, like, smart.” :smack: Although I read this morning that he’s going to condescend to allow himself to be briefed on intelligence matters… _finally_. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/73 "2016-12-30T17:18:08Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m glad, too. And your description of optimism is good. I’ll get there, but I’m not there yet. Hell, the man isn’t even President, so presumably, he’s still holding back to some extent. WTF does he have in store for us when he’s unleashed? The thing to remember is how far we have come. Even with Trump at his worst he can’t make things as bad as they have been previously in our nations history. No matter what Trump does to race relations and gay rights it can’t be as bad for minorities as it was in the 50’s, and we survived that as a nation In terms of suppression of dissent I don’t think we will hit the low bar of McCarthyism, and we survived that as a nation. In terms of the Economy I doubt he could bring about another great depression, and we survived that as a nation. Trump won’t be able to take us back to the 1900’s in terms of labor laws. Which we survived. With regard to healthcare, repealing the ACA only puts us back where we were in 2008, and even that is unlikely as the Republicans realize the political implications of canceling 26 million voter’s insurance. So they will probably cobble together something that although it is not as good as what we currently have is better than what we had in 2007. I admit that I have a hard time coming up with any administration that was as much of a disaster in terms of foreign policy as Trump’s is likely to be, but America lacks the political will to support a Draft so its unlikely that we will get into another Vietnam, which we survived as a nation. We are at a critical point in terms of climate change but any solution is going to have to be effective on a century if not millennium level time scale. If the biosphere can’t handle a 4 year break in efforts to curb climate change by the United States, then we are doomed already, as there is no way that such a break won’t happen some time in the next 200 years. So our survival isn’t be solely dependent on the actions of Mr. Trump. Its not going to be a fun 4 years and may have implications decades into the future, but we’ve survived worse and will still be better than we have been in the past. His presidency will likely be one giant leap backwards, but just one of many backwards steps and jumps on what as been a 240 year journey forward. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/74 "2016-12-30T18:03:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > While I don’t endorse vague “overthrow Trump” rhetoric either now or during his time in office, **you** are the moron if you don’t perceive that Trump, in real terms, does indeed have plenty of power right now. > > Not only personal financial power but power to influence public opinion, power to influence other countries’ policies by declaring his own policy goals, power to influence domestic markets and economies by making preparations for his administration’s policies and logistics, etc. > > Yes, Trump will not exercise any of the specific official powers of the Presidency until he takes office. But only a fool would imagine that those are the only kind of power there is. The moron that Guin was replying to was yammering about armed revolution. I used the word “power” as shorthand for “in office, political power” because I was responding to the idea of armed revolution–and in a normal conversation, it’s self-evident that you _CAN’T_ have an armed revolution against someone who’s not…y’know…in office or even in line for it. So the word choice “power” as shorthand, would have worked in a normal conversation. Mea Culpa. I will try to remember that on the SDMB, that nitpicking a word choice is more important that actually reading and understanding the point. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/75 "2016-12-30T18:41:00Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Mea Culpa. I will try to remember that on the SDMB, that nitpicking a word choice is more important that actually reading and understanding the point. You’re the one who was nitpicking **Crazy Canuck** in an uncharitable manner without responding to his point, which may not have even been serious. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/76 "2016-12-30T19:46:15Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > One american I liked said this a long time ago. Jefferson included that famous passage in [his letter to William Stephens Smith](https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-12-02-0348), 17 November, 1787. He was responding to [Shays Rebellion](http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/shays-rebellion/)–one of the events that proved the Articles of Confederation were inadequate. So our best minds met in Philadelphia & produced the Constitution. TJ thought it might give the government too much power. (He wrote from Paris–where he was safely away from any rebellion; also away from the writing of the Constitution.) Jefferson was hardly fit to blithely recommend the shedding of blood. After his excellent first draft of the Declaration, he had little to do with the Revolution. Famously a man of many interests, he was bored by military matters. TJ’s piss-poor performance as wartime Governor of Virginia led to an announcement of an investigation: Had his response to the British invasion of the state been mere incompetence–or cowardice? Yorktown intervened & the investigation was cancelled. But TJ never got over it. Timothy McVeigh had an excerpt of TJ’s words on his t-shirt when he was arrested after killing 168 men, women & children in Oklahoma City. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/77 "2016-12-30T23:37:22Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The thing to remember is how far we have come. Even with Trump at his worst he can’t make things as bad as they have been previously in our nations history. > > No matter what Trump does to race relations and gay rights it can’t be as bad for minorities as it was in the 50’s, and we survived that as a nation > > In terms of suppression of dissent I don’t think we will hit the low bar of McCarthyism, and we survived that as a nation. > > In terms of the Economy I doubt he could bring about another great depression, and we survived that as a nation. > > Trump won’t be able to take us back to the 1900’s in terms of labor laws. Which we survived. He can’t, but he and the Republicans together can. And I expect them to. At best, I expect a forcible regression to a society like the 1920’s/1930s; no one not a white Christian man permitted to vote, the wealthy and the corporations allowed to be as corrupt and destructive as the please while the people go hungry; women essentially reduced to slaves; homosexuals imprisoned or killed; and an economy in collapse. Except worse because it’ll all be imposed from above by force. And with a state religion added to the mix. At worst? Nuclear war, or they decide to regain their majority status the old fashioned way and kill off a hundred million people or so. And no; I don’t think that would bother them _morally_ in the slightest. The only thing likely to stop them is fear that the military would turn on them. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/78 "2016-12-31T03:19:26Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > . . . just a day or 2 ago there was an article that coal miner hillbillies from West Virginia . . . If I were a coal miner from West Virginia, and knew that “liberals” were talking about me like this, I would have voted for Trump too. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/79 "2016-12-31T03:34:23Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > If I were a coal miner from West Virginia, and knew that “liberals” were talking about me like this, I would have voted for Trump too. If they are willing to hurt that many people so badly for such a trivial reason, they deserve every bit of scorn they get and more. Perhaps they prefer less regional terms, like\* scum\* or _monster._ ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301/80 "2016-12-31T03:54:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If they are willing to hurt that many people so badly for such a trivial reason, they deserve every bit of scorn they get and more. Perhaps they prefer less regional terms, like\* scum\* or _monster._ Wake up. It’s about time that the Democratic party realized that the near-total contempt in which urban liberals hold working people played a significant part in Trump’s election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-supporters-who-need-the-aca-are-in-for-a-rude-surprise/775301.md?page=5)